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Self-Sabotage and Neurophysiology

Self-Sabotage and Neurophysiology

[00:00:49] Well, I’m so glad to have you on the leave better podcasts, where we are trying to get people to come and leave better and then leave better, whatever it is they touch.

[00:00:58] Tell us a little bit [00:01:00] about what it is that your company does.

[00:01:03] Intro

[00:01:03] Draskco: I run level mind, which is both my signature coaching program and podcast of the same name. And both of them deal with this one central question of like, are my business problems or my business. ceilings. Actually me problems. So who I specialize in working with is entrepreneurs that are somewhat established, meaning that they’ve done the business courses, they’ve done the mastermind, they know the business strategy.

[00:01:31] They have sales, they have some marketing, like they’ve done the like one-on-one stuff as far as like businesses concerned. But what they know and what they can show. There’s a discrepancy there. So they generally know a lot more than they can actually show. And usually that’s because of something that they’re not looking internally.

The Inner Bottleneck

[00:01:50] So like an inner blind spot and inner bottleneck, that’s now seeping into their business and basically creating this friction that’s causing the ceiling. So [00:02:00] my specialty is diving into, okay. So what is it that you’re being, that’s being brought into the business? Remove that, so that not only you can get over that ceiling, but then also normalize a brand new baseline and expand that way.

[00:02:17] So kind of like if you expand and evolve the human behind the entrepreneur, the business naturally also with. Absolutely you and I are of one mind on this. We’re always talking about where self-sabotage keeps you from reaching your next level. And that’s exactly what you’re talking about. So why don’t you give our listeners an idea of what made you want to create this business?

[00:02:41] The Motivation to address the Bottleneck

[00:02:41] Miriam: What made you want to address the bottleneck or be involved in the role that you currently. Okay. Well, because I’ve lived that life for a long time leading to the creation of, you know, figuring it out and now manifesting it into a business. So [00:03:00] I’ll give some background and context and I’m like how that came about.

[00:03:03] I actually went to business school, had a very typical Traditional route as far as like my trajectory rather than my parents are very big on school. So I excelled in school, went to the best school here in Toronto and then got a business degree and quickly realized that the nine to five life wasn’t really for me.

Martial Arts

[00:03:23] And I’ve been doing martial arts since I was 11 and I was coaching martial arts. And so I was 16. So at some capacity I’ve been at coach for a very long time. And that was always something that stuck with me. So. When I kind of came to this realization, the nine to five life wasn’t for me. I was teaching martial arts during that time.

[00:03:42] So I kind of had nothing to lose. I was like, okay, well let me try and see if I can figure out how to make some money doing this other thing that I actually will do for free and do it after work.

Ways to Make a Living

Anyway. So I started teaching cardio kickboxing classes. At that time, people started coming to me for weight loss.

[00:03:57] I quickly realized that like what I was [00:04:00] doing, wasn’t the best modality to get people to lose weight. And I’d struggled with weight myself as a kid. it was something that was quite close to me. I started learning. Okay, how do I actually get people to lose weight properly? I started teaching myself how to like be a personal trainer and then got certified in nutrition.

The Brick & Mortar Space

[00:04:18] And that. Me down this like 10 year path of creating a brick and mortar weight loss center that had hundreds of clients. We had four staff that basically after 10 years of investing into this and really exploring self-sabotage for other people through the vehicle weight loss and, and food. What ended up happening with the businesses?

[00:04:38] It was poised to do its best thing going forward, but then it crashed and it actually crashed right after or right before the pandemic. So I can’t even blame it on the pandemic. Like if I’m being honest, it’s like, it wasn’t that the reason why it ended up crashing due to my own emotional constipation, my own emotional immature.

Poor Business Decisions

[00:04:59] And [00:05:00] really self-sabotage at making a lot of decisions that were very poor business decisions that were trying to fill these quote-unquote holes in my soul, that the business wasn’t. The business is not a proxy to, you know, make me worthwhile it. It is an expression and vehicle of me to create something that I want to see in the world.

[00:05:21] I was using it for that I was using it to find significance, to prove that I can be good enough and that I have to prove that I’m a good entrepreneur. So that’s why I’m actually going to make the studio be, you know, what it could be. I was thinking that if I could heal enough people that somehow that would translate and like heal me so that I wouldn’t feel broken.


[00:05:39] in hindsight, all these things are very obvious, but in that moment that they weren’t. So this is why I made all these decisions. And also around that same time, I had just gotten out of like this perfect on paper five-year relationship and everything just started crashing down. In and around that time that the business started crashing down.[00:06:00]

[00:06:00] I’d always thought I’d done personal development, but it wasn’t until that relationship ended. And the business started ending that I really realized what I was missing as far as personal development. Like I was. Looking at everything like you would look at animals in a zoo, like, let’s just say emotions.

[00:06:17] I’d be like, oh, look, there’s depression. There’s anger. There’s joy. There’s frustration. But it was like a filter between me and the emotion. So like the first part, it was actually realizing like, oh, you need to actually feel the stuff that you intellectually understand and can guide other people through.

Identity Came Crashing Down

[00:06:34] through that time that all my identity, all my life was like crashing down. I had to begin to pivot and like begin to reinvent myself. So I had grown my studio in a very non-typical way for gyms, which is, they mostly rely on like community and referrals. I grew my business from like a internet marketing perspective.

[00:06:56] I ran a lot of funnels. I ran ads and I had all these [00:07:00] automations and things set up to bring people in and, you know, do do our thing in the studio. So, because that was a skillset that I had, I just started doing that for other coaches and other online entrepreneurs that started going well as well.

[00:07:15] I was, you know, had clients on retainer. It was like going well. But I still find myself like not really happy. And then I was at another crossroads being like, well, I don’t want to make the same mistake twice. Like I have another opportunity to like really make something of myself. What is it actually enjoyed doing?

I Don’t Really Want to Build an Agency

[00:07:31] Cause it’s not like I don’t really want to build an agency. And that really led me to realization that like the part that I was enjoying most was actually talking to the business owners about. How do you evolve the human behind the entrepreneurs at the business tactics we’ll be able to work the best, right?

[00:07:49] Like we were running a marketing campaign that required, you know an increase in price to make the numbers work. Then it would be like, okay, well, why, why, or do you [00:08:00] resist, like raising your prices? Like, what does that mean about you and kind of got into all of those things. So it was through both that and the immense amount of time, energy and money I spent towards my own healing and the learning and the things that I’ve done since then and gotten coaching on and learned a lot of different coaching with allergies.

UpLevel Mind

[00:08:19] That kind of led me to the realization that whatever. Interested in. And what I really am passionate about is this whole idea of evolving the human behind the entrepreneur and in that’s where Uplevel minds started a form. And then that’s where, you know, the podcast started to form and now the, the program is, you know what it is, and that’s kind of what brings me today.

[00:08:39] So that’s, and here we are. Yeah. Wow. That’s a lot. I want to comment on something you said, you said something like. I thought I had dealt with this, but you didn’t say it exactly this way, but in reality, I hadn’t done something. I want to comment on. Some of our listeners know that I am also a therapist as well as a [00:09:00] coach.

It’s a Familiar Story

[00:09:00] And so the story you’re telling is a, is a familiar story. And the thing I want to tell people and encourage people with is that self-development is an iterative process. I almost think of it like a corkscrew or a spring where. You’re going to hit the same topics multiple times in your life. And I have so many people who have said to me, I thought I dealt with that.

[00:09:23] I thought I, you know, that was over and done and you didn’t deal with it at that time at your level for whatever, you know, the space required. And then you continued growing and moving and whatever. And you’re, it’s sort of like, I think sometimes like a crab who needs to get a bigger shell and he has to like, Crack open and get that soft underbelly for a little bit.

Things No Longer Bring You Joy

[00:09:49] And then he moves into a bigger shell and away goes and lives his life for a while. And then it happens again, you know, my guess is. At some level, initially [00:10:00] your the things you were doing were bringing you joy, or you wouldn’t have continued to do them. And then you maxed out into a space where it was no longer bringing you joy.

Dark Night of the Soul

[00:10:09] And then you have that dark night of the soul, like, oh my gosh, what is going on here? And that was like a space of rebirth. So I, if, if you are willing to. Bounce into maybe some of the self sabotaging mindsets that you saw in yourself and then how that mindset translates into behaviors. I would love for our listeners to be able to hear that because we’re all human beings.

[00:10:36] And sometimes you hear in another person. Oh, a I’m not the only one, but also I’ve had that thought or I’ve had, yeah. So share with us some mindsets. Okay. There’s actually a lot of stuff there. So I’m just going to kind of start on one comment and then I will answer your question afterwards. So I, a hundred percent agree with your sentiment that like the things we [00:11:00] thought we dealt with you know, we seem to have to deal with at another level and.


[00:11:05] In my coaching, I use this idea of resistance, right? So anybody who’s read the war of art by Steven Pressfield, he talks about resistance with this capital R and I love that concept. I find it very helpful in my own journey, and I find it very helpful to describe this. So resistance for anybody who hasn’t read the book or is listening and the way that I use.

[00:11:26] As I define it as it’s the counterforce to leveling up. So what that really means is like resistance is only works in one direction. If what you want to do is, you know, watch Netflix and eat ice cream. You’re not going to ever meet any resistance because you’re kind of pulling down away from your Uplevel.

[00:11:44] Like you, you are not doing something is going to require a higher version of yourself. There’s not going to be any resistance there as soon as you go and you start to do something that’s outside of. Not just your comfort zone, but your familiarity zone, you’re going to hit resistance [00:12:00] happens every time.

The Resistance is Ruthless

[00:12:01] It is the one thing that’s always guaranteed and resistance is extremely ruthless. It’ll it’ll pick up on all of the things that it can pick up to keep you the same. Hence it works only in one direction. Like if you think of a plane. Plane meets turbulence every single time it goes up. It’s not like this is a great plan, so you’re never going to meet turbulence.

[00:12:21] That’s why I call it. Like whenever we meet resistance in order to process, whatever we need to process in that time. And now that differs, and that’s a very nuanced conversation, but the turbulence of resistance is very real. And the reason I call it a turbulence of resistance is because turbulence while tumultuous, you actually survive.

[00:12:41] Otherwise, it would just be called a crash. So then very nature of resistance is guaranteed. Anytime we level up to anything. So like initially might be visibility issues, you know, where you face off with your unworthiness, but then the same thing comes along. When you have a team like, oh no, am I worthy to like, do [00:13:00] it.

Leveling UP

[00:13:01] You’re leveling up. That’s when resistance is going to hit, it is going to hit and where you are weakest and is all usually going to be, you know, some sort of deep wounding. Right. So that just to kind of shed light on that whole sentiment of like, why’d, we have to repeat this you know, it’s like welcome to being human, but that’s kind of the, the way that it works.

[00:13:18] Neurophysiology and Self-Sabotage

[00:13:18] Miriam: Right. Now as far as like the self-sabotage bit. So the way that I look at self-sabotage and I did a whole podcast episode on this is I define self-sabotage as something that’s very real, but it doesn’t actually exist. So how is something real, but doesn’t actually exist. So the real part of self-sabotage.

[00:13:40] Is the consequences of it. They’re extremely real, right? Like the, the consequences of legislative south sabotage through an action are extremely real because that’s what keeps you from your potential. That’s what keeps you in these loops, you know, that it just, it sucks to be. In that space, the consequences of [00:14:00] that are extremely, extremely real self-sabotage in and of itself as a thing that we are going to do something that’s going to work against ourselves, that doesn’t actually exist because fundamentally all behaviors in some level are need fulfilling.

You have Reasons to Not Do ‘X’

[00:14:16] So there is a part of you that has a very good reason to why it’s not doing. This action. Like we are labeling it as inaction because the action is really, I should do this business thing where I’m hitting resistance to, but you’re actually taking a different action. Like I’m distracting, I’m getting ice cream, I’m scrolling through Facebook.

[00:14:36] So like even the sentiment of I’m not taking actions is actually a misnomer because you are actually taking action. They’re just not the actions aligned with your highest. Good. So. What that allows you to do, like knowing that the real part is of self-sabotage as a consequences, but it doesn’t actually exist.

NYU Coaching

[00:14:56] In my experience at NYU coaching, it allows the space [00:15:00] for acceptance, like realizing there is a part of me that is conditioned to do this. I have a paradigm that’s running in my head that, that makes this worthwhile, that there is some payback, despite the fact that doesn’t make logical sense. It usually makes emotional sense that allows you to accept it.

[00:15:19] Oftentimes we have very biologically correct responses, right? Like, let’s just say going back to the visibility bit. If I was reprimanded every time I express myself as a kid, I’m going to have a very neurological reaction. Every time I get up on social media, that is a correct biological response.

[00:15:37] There’s nothing wrong. Like if I threw a snake in your face right now, like nobody would be like, why are you so weird for jumping back? It is a natural biological reaction. So knowing that I think allows people to space and then be like, Okay. Like, I can breathe here. I’m not fundamentally broken. What can I now do to actually move in a [00:16:00] different direction and actually work to, you know, quote unquote, fix this, or really it’s about installing a different paradigm, installing a different behavior set.

How I Approach Self-Sabotaging

[00:16:07] So that’s always how I like to approach self-sabotaging in give that grace to people right off the bat so that they can stand more firmly and be more empowered to actually go ahead and change it as. They can behaviors. They do do align with the results that they do want. Right. Something that I love that you said that I want to just camp on is your use of parts, language.

[00:16:30] And I think that we intuitively say, ah, pardon me, wants to do this. a part of me wants to do that, but actually there’s a whole like psychological theory that uses parts, language, internal family systems. And it allows somebody to get out of that space of, “I suck, I’m the worst. I can’t do this.”  Whatever, you know, I, I, well, a part of you.

The Potato Chips

[00:16:54] Once they sit in bed and eat potato chips, but obviously not all of you does because otherwise [00:17:00] you wouldn’t even be having this conversation in your head. And there’s a part of you who wants to reach your next level or you wouldn’t be experiencing such an angst. That kind of language really underscores the grace.

[00:17:12] You’re talking about where you can, it’s not about letting yourself off the hook, but it’s about. Giving yourself enough breathing room that you have the option of moving into that next space, or you have the option of being able to say, okay. Yeah, a part of me wants to take a nap, but another part of me wants to go for a walk.

[00:17:32] How about if I support the part of me that wants to go for a walk? So let me ask you for just a second. This might sound like it’s the same question, but it’s a little bit different. When you look at the ways that people self sabotage themselves or the bottlenecks, can you just give some specific examples?

[00:17:52] I see them doing this, I see them doing this. I said, well, just give us like a grocery list or a bulleted list of some of the common [00:18:00] ways you see people self-sabotage yeah. A hundred percent. I guess. Okay. I have a. One of my freebies on my website is, is this whole masterclasses it’s 30 minutes, but actually it goes into this very question.

My Business Problems are ME Problems

[00:18:18], you know, my business problems actually me problems and it breaks it down into the actual patterns that most oftentimes you see, right? So for example, one pattern might be like literacy. If somebody experiences like a feast and famine pattern in their business. Right? So. If I make a lot of money, but I can’t seem to keep a lot of it.

[00:18:42] Like that is one aspect of the feast and famine where it’s like, I have a lot and then I don’t have a lot. Okay. Or on the flip side of it, which is like, I go through periods where I have absolutely nothing. And then I panic and I start to make a lot, like to me, that’s, it’s a very [00:19:00] similar pattern in that as well.

[00:19:03] Obviously the nuances matter as far as like how the individual appears in those particular patterns? Well, one of the things I find most often with something like that is. Again, going back to like, how did somebody actually grow up? Right. And, and oftentimes when I see feast and famine aspects, it’s like, they’re more familiar in chaos than they are in actual stability.

Comfortable vs Healthy

[00:19:27] then they will start to do things to create the chaos so that they can actually feel comfortable. And I say comfortable, familiar in their nervous system. Yeah. This is often a shock to people that operate in this way. Cause it’s like, well, no, the reason I like went into business for myself because I didn’t want to replicate these scenarios.

[00:19:49] And it’s like, I know that’s what you consciously don’t want, but your actions and the patterns that you experiencing seem to always point in that [00:20:00] direction. Right? So like that’s one example. The other part that I think is also relevant, it’s like, Are you an individual that tends to down-regulate in times of stress?

The Fight Response

[00:20:09] Or do you like up-regulate so like, do you, when things get stressful, like, are you more in a fight response? And like you just kind of go, go, go, go, go. Or do you kind of turtle and shy away? Which has generally been like my pattern. So I experienced more of the more traditional self-sabotage bit, which is like, I’m just not taking the actions that I know I should.

[00:20:31] And I think people are often. Quite surprised when they realize it’s like two sides of the same coin. I could be extremely busy doing a lot of tasks, taking care of everybody else. Never really asking for my needs because the being busy numbs me away from what it is that I actually have to face or what it is actually have to do, or the conversation that I actually have to have, whether that’s with a team member, whether that’s with a partner, whether it’s with a client and setting boundaries.

Hiding Doesn’t Work

[00:20:59] Right. [00:21:00] It’s kind of the same thing as if I just hide away and never really face any of the things. Rather, the issue is facing the thing you actually have to face how it actually expresses a new is the part that actually differs. So we can go into a lot more different examples there, but that’s just two that kind of come to mind now.

[00:21:19] I love the comparing contrast because so often it is the same. Topic or indices and people have a tendency to flip one direction or the other the, the fight or the freeze space is a really good example. And we all have that neuro-physiology within us.


[00:21:39] And when we get in on our amygdalas where we’re going to do one of those things, Flight freeze. Unless we are able to like climb into that upstairs brain space, which I’m sure your coaching, you know, helps people stand, take a step back and look at that space and let’s make some decisions about how we want to respond [00:22:00] instead of just reacting to whatever the scenario is.

[00:22:04] I want to underscore something you said is always easier to deal with the other person that ourselves, you know, If you’ve got X amount of time, it’s so much easier to get into their stuff and help them or criticize them or whatever, versus looking at our own stuff and dealing with it, which is why so many of us become our own bottlenecks.

[00:22:27] And why. You have a thriving business and I do too. I just love this conversation.

[00:22:32] The Concept He’s Chewing On

[00:22:32] Miriam: So something I’ve noticed about you already is that you’re obviously a thinker. You love conceptual things. And I want to ask you what concept or idea are you currently chewing on thinking about mulling over?

[00:22:48] Draskco: I am a very firm believer in that like coaches need coaches. So like I have a coach as well, that, that I also work through and I am right now peeling [00:23:00] a lot of my own layers, like in addition to work that I’ve done to kind of bring me here, but even beyond that, to really just shed even more. Of the things that aren’t serving me as they’re coming up in my business as well.

[00:23:20] So to give a more specific example, like I started this particular business through the podcast. So my podcast is I bring people on that resonate with this idea of like, are my business problems, me problems. And I just record a live coaching session diving into whatever’s present for them. So that day can walk away with a realization many times that, you know, in 30 minutes we can get to something that they’ve been struggling with for like decades.

The Initial Roster of Clients

[00:23:49] Right? So that’s how I got my initial like roster of clients. And I’m coming to a point now where I think the, the, the park has just becoming a [00:24:00] way to create content and. One of the patterns I had in the previous businesses, as well as like I could be behind the scenes of like the ads and the funnels and all of that, or like the success stories in the studio.

[00:24:17] I didn’t have to be the front person part of the brand to attract the clientele that we did have. And that was really convenient for like the hiding aspects of my personality. That. Got built up in, in, in like my childhood and the patterns that I had. So now they’re resurfacing again, like going back to previous conversation in that, because I’m now at this bottleneck of my business where it’s like, okay, the podcast isn’t really going to be the thing that I thought it was going to be as far as like the, the path to getting to my next stage of my business, I’m going to have to become visible.

Inner Child Work

[00:24:56] That’s probably the reason I’m doing more podcasts like this. That’s [00:25:00] now coming up for me. So as far as like your question of like, what are the concepts that I’m like diving into? So a lot of inner child work as well, like that that’s been very present in this whole process as well. For anybody that’s read the five personality types by Stephen Kessler.

[00:25:16] Just the realization of the enduring pattern. So basically just for, I mean, it hasn’t read this. So we develop these personality patterns as ways to cope with not being able to get our needs met in childhood and he breaks it down into like five different patterns for me. The most dominant one is this enduring pattern where.

[00:25:36] Basically like I on the surface will appear to be very like complicit with whatever’s going on. Internally, I’m trying to like resist, right? So classic example of this is like, if you have a country that’s occupied by somebody and then like you, you don’t put up any resistance, but like, then they ask you to like help them build stuff.

[00:25:59] And then you [00:26:00] self-sabotage their bridges. Right? So you like look complicit, but then you just kind of endure until it’s your opportunity to like exercise your own autonomy. Cause it was repressed and some other ways. So I know we’re kind of diving into a lot of different things, but to answer your questions.

[00:26:14] Working with the Inner Child

[00:26:14] Draskco: Inner child work and it really exploring how this pattern shows up in my business and in the visibility that’s going to be required to take me to the next stage.

[00:26:24] Miriam:

[00:26:24] From LeaveBetter

[00:26:24] Miriam: Hey, this is Miriam jumping back in. Are you looking to go to the next level in your life or business right now? That’s what lead better is about my friend. We give you the coaching to level up, have those breakthroughs so you can stop the self-sabotage that keeps you where you are currently. Let’s make, self-improvement a way of life, Joe, to leave better.com and download the free resource that’s there today.

[00:26:48] We change them regularly. So go and see what’s new at leavebetter.com. Now back to our interview.[00:27:00]

Back to Draskco

[00:27:02] Okay, so this is a question I don’t ask hardly any of my guests, but you, feel very open to me. So what do you think you’re chasing in the business right now, or just in general in this chapter of my life in your life?

[00:27:21] Draskco: Actually, I would say, and I’m just kind of tuning in right now.

[00:27:28] Answer comes out.

[00:27:34] So the surface level bit that comes up is like, self-actualization kind of like the, like the more okay. I like, I want more out of myself. Yeah. But when I get honest and like tune in deeper, I think it’s actually like a deeper sense of self-acceptance. Mm. Right. Like to [00:28:00] realize that I’m healed so that I can accept myself like the conditions of that.

[00:28:05] So, yeah, I would say that’s my answer. And thank you for asking that question. Cause it it’s it’s it’s it’s a relevant one.

[00:28:13] You’re welcome.

[00:28:14] Miriam: So self-actualization self-acceptance so that.

[00:28:26] Draskco: So that I can experience myself as whole. And then what, what do you want to do with the whole, you

[00:28:37] express like unapologetically express and show up in the world to the degree that I fantasize about wanting to, to, to express in a way that lines up with what I can [00:29:00] fantasize about, possibly being a thing someday, bringing that more to the now.

[00:29:07] Miriam: I appreciate just your willingness to be so willing to explore and be vulnerable.

What the World Needs

[00:29:14] I mean, that’s just unusual there, and I don’t know who this quote is attributed to, but it’s kind of like, and I’m probably not going to say it quite right, but Don’t ask what the world needs, ask what you need to be alive, because what the world needs are people who are alive. And one of my fundamental beliefs and why I’m doing the business I’m doing is that I believe we each have something unique to contribute to the world and that we get in our own way.

[00:29:43] We are constrained from giving that thing and what our world needs. I mean, our world is a mess. What our world needs, what our planet needs is each one of us living out our best selves, our best version, bringing that thing, whether that is [00:30:00] service to some form of humanity or service to the planet or service to you know, I mean, there’s just no end to the places that we can bring our good.

[00:30:11] And I hear you saying you want to live. Fully alive so you can bring your good, your unique Draskco. . Good.

[00:30:19] Draskco: Yeah. You’re absolutely right. And thank you for prompting that and asking that question. I mean, as an aside, it’s only fair given that I do this to people live on air from the giving end. So it’s only fair that I actually receive it as well.

Feeling the Resistance

[00:30:33] But also again, in full transparency. So like, as you were saying that last piece. Like I could, I could feel the resistant parts of myself, like checking out and like not listening. Right. So I know that what you’re saying is relevant to this stage and this chapter that I’m in right now, because everything you were speaking about was related to that, that unapologetic expression, right?

[00:30:57] Like that people need to see my. [00:31:00] Authentically expressed in the world. So yeah. Thank you very much for asking that and taking me there cause it’s 110% of.

Pay Attention to What Happens in Your Body

[00:31:10] Miriam: You’re welcome. And I appreciate you underscoring that resistance piece because one of the things that I’m sure you work with your people on, I work with my people on paying attention to what happens in your body, noticing where are places opening up and where are these hands like pushing against that resistance.

[00:31:31] And a lot of times people initially assume that resistance means. Ah, see, it’s bad. The door’s closed. I need to go the other direction. And usually resistance means, Hey, push on that a little bit more and figure out what’s behind it. Something important is behind it.

[00:31:50] So let me

[00:31:52] take a little bit of a turn. Many of my listeners are business owners and entrepreneurs, and they’re going to be like, oh my gosh, you [00:32:00] get a little more practical. Some are going to love that we were in this more ethereal place. I believe we need both.

Key Insights or Processes

[00:32:07] What key insights or processes do you think have moved your business forward?

[00:32:16] Draskco: As far as like the tactical parts of the business, or like the working with myself, either one, it could be a mindset or it could be, Hey, I hired an assistant well, is this is always good. I’m a firm believer in doing that as quickly as possible.

[00:32:31] My current assistant that I have with right now, because especially earlier stage entrepreneurs will always get into that trap of like, well, I wish I could hire somebody, but like, I can’t. So, you know, how do I do that? Like, My current assistant that helps me with a lot of these reach outs and, and, and just like the kind of grunt work of getting people into my world.

[00:32:53] Bartering is Alive and Well

[00:32:53] Draskco: She initially came on to the podcast. We, you know, we did our thing. She wanted to continue with coaching. Wasn’t in a position to [00:33:00] invest in doing the coaching. And because I knew that part of what she did was also VA work. I was like, well, listen, if you’re willing to trade some VA hours for like an hour of, of my coaching time, I’m more than happy to do that.

[00:33:14] And that’s the relationship that we have right now. So like she gets the coaching and she’s slowly growing her business. And yeah, she’s at a stage that most of my clients aren’t, but that’s totally fine. Like I can help her navigate both the business and the internal bed. So she’s getting a lot out of that.

[00:33:31] And I’m getting, you know, all these hours. I don’t have to spend doing all this, like reach out work and stuff like that. So I just bring that up because so oftentimes we’ll default to like, this won’t work instead of asking what, how can I make it work? Right. And I think there’s a lot of people out there that could find a equivalent.

[00:33:52] Barter type situation with somebody that does, especially if you’re like in a coaching consulting type business, like there’s a [00:34:00] lot of real estate in your head that people want access to. They all might also be willing to trade their time for it. So bachelors one that I would throw out there as like, should different way to think about something that I think is very critical.

Tracking Things

[00:34:12] And then as far as. A personal tool for me. So I do really well when things are kinda tracked consistently. So it’s not like I have spreadsheets or whatever for, for everything, but I do like that sort of visual type tracking.

[00:34:27] One of the things we use, even in my programs is this thing of like earning rocks. So you had mentioned earlier that like, people don’t sit with that resistance or they don’t really know what that process is.

[00:34:39] Like, like the way that I start my coaching, like one of the first habits that people work on is. 10 minutes of doing nothing. And the reason that I have that as like the first thing we do before we dive into like the other tools, et cetera, is unless you can build up the emotional threshold to like sit with the parts that are [00:35:00] uncomfortable, that are trying to surface that want to emerge.

[00:35:04] It’s gonna like, it’s, it’s gonna work against you when we try to actually do the work of, you know, releasing and working through and reframing or whatever it is that we end up doing. So. If you can increase that tolerance where you don’t have to run away from feelings and you can sit with them and be with them and see them, et cetera, then that opens up the space to actually manage, you know, what I call thought hygiene and all the other aspects.

The Mason Jar

[00:35:30] And the way that we do this is, and I have it like right here. W what I’m showing up here is it’s a Mason jar of rocks. So I have everybody collect either a hundred rocks or a hundred marbles or a hundred whatever. And every time you do a process like this, so initially we start with like the, do nothing, and then it might translate into using some other tool, but they put a rock into the Mason jar.

The Visual Representation

[00:35:56] And this is like just a visual representation of like I am [00:36:00] investing and earning rocks and I’m trying to get like, it’s, it’s a visual representation of my commitment to myself to use the tools that can actually move me forward. And I’ve used this for like, stuff like that. I’ve used it for. How many times I apply a particular tool to like work on my thoughts, how many times I like whatever it is that’s present that I’m trying to work on.

[00:36:22] I will use the rocks as a way to count that I find that that’s a very simple, but highly effective way to maintain a practice. That is malleable enough to accommodate whatever, like it could be. Meditation could be, do nothing could be, do this. Prompt could be check in with myself. Tho those, that would be my answer for that.

Apps vs a Physical Thing

[00:36:43] Miriam: I love that example. The thing that’s so beautiful about it is, you know, there’s 430 apps that could do the same thing, but it does not work with your brain the same way to click a little thing that says now you’ve done it 47 days or three days or whatever. I even, I have [00:37:00] some paper things where I will, you know, check a box and that’s actually better than clicking a button, but a jar with rocks is a thousand percent better and I’ve done something like that with little tile things, or you can make it pretty, or you can make it even do even use whatever it is that you want to use.

[00:37:18] But when your brain sees that and it sees it accumulating. When you have that, like, eh, maybe I won’t, whatever, there’s some other part of your brain that goes, no, I want to put a rock in the jar. So it’s extremely effective. I love it. Let’s transition a little bit into leadership because you, you demonstrates a leadership personality.

[00:37:42] What kind of beliefs or actions have made the biggest impact on you as a leader?

[00:37:50] Walking Your Own Walk

[00:37:50] Draskco: Trying to walk your own talk as much as possible. I think that is especially in coaching, you know, I think that is, I’m a firm [00:38:00] believer in that the degree to which you can. Work with somebody or the degree to like how far you can take them or the degree to which you can navigate somebody else’s, you know, trauma or in our world or whatever is going to be equivalent to the degree that you have done it within yourself.

[00:38:17] Or like you only go as far as. You can only take somebody as far as like you’ve gone yourself. So I try and live by that ethos as much as I possibly can, because I think it is the thing that’s in most integrity with the work that I’m doing. Like, I don’t want to ever be in a position where I’m asking somebody, Hey, you know, can you do a hundred rocks if I’ve never like gotten to a hundred rocks myself.

Keeping Count

[00:38:40] Right. So I keep a count of how many I’ve done. For that particular reason, right. If I’m going to ask them to do something, that’s it. And to me, that kind of encapsulates. Well leadership. Like I think if you just telling people what to do without authentically embodying, whatever that thing is before [00:39:00] then, you know, you could argue, okay, maybe like that’s management or like ordering people around, like whatever the semantics you want to use.

[00:39:06] Like it’s not really in integrity with me. So for me, it’s always to what degree am I walking my own talk and. Am I a hundred percent always consistent with that. No, but I’m also very willing to be like, yeah, you know what? I screwed up here or I could do this better or whatever relegating a part of walking your own talk is actually owning your own faults, owning where you also need to grow, owning where my blind spots are, which also I said before, coaches need coaches and I’ve always had coaches to some degrees.

His System

[00:39:40] That’s my system to like, make sure that the mirror is also reflected back on me so that I can show up in the most authentic. In integrity kind of way. Yeah, I appreciate we’re not, it’s not that you have to be perfect. You have to have intentionality and then you have to own the spaces where [00:40:00] it’s like, I wanted to head that direction, but I didn’t.

[00:40:02] Miriam: Anybody who has children is familiar with that saying. Not as I do. And of course that never works. And the interesting thing, when you’re talking about business, you know, if you’re a solo preneur, maybe it doesn’t matter quite as much now it always matters. But when you manage other people, when you have other team members, you know, the CEO.

Being the Mom or Dad of Your Company

[00:40:25] They are the mom or the dad of that company. And I can’t tell you, the companies I’ve been in where there was like, this is our policy. We treat people with respect. We don’t yell at them. We, you know, whatever. And then the CEO loses it and yells at them. And I’ve been in many companies where that’s not the case, but I have that in somewhere.

[00:40:48] It is. And then you end up with this. In congruence between what is said and what is modeled. And that is one of the ways I think people self sabotage themselves.[00:41:00]

[00:41:00] You’ve mentioned several books. , is there any one in particular, either that you tend to gift to people a lot or you recommend all the time, or you’re currently reading where you’re like, this is awesome.

[00:41:12] Draskco: Yes. I mean, I guess the number one thing. Preface that with is like, I think books, like people will often come into your life when you need them. And I think it’s this thing that you read at that time that was so pointed and you look back on and now you’re like, okay, that was good.

[00:41:26] But like, it’s not really that relevant anymore. So you know, that. I’m a firm believer with that when it comes to books. So I’m like always, like, if you want me to give you a book on a particular topic, like what’s the topic, but on a more general sense, like one that I recommended, I think more than any other was Loving What Is by Byron Katie.


[00:41:47] Right. And even just like inquiry is something that I use quite a bit, even in my own work and with my own self. And I think it’s such a good primer for people to. Realize a lot of things [00:42:00] on like, acceptance. Like we spoke about that earlier and then really like a very solid process on how. We project so many things on to other people and like really understanding that distinction of like the three types of business.

[00:42:17] So we have God’s business, your business and my business. And like the more time I spend in God’s business and other people’s business, the less I’m actually spending on mine, which really then becomes a big part of the suffering. So. It opened up that world for me when I initially read it and then really started just practicing a lot of inquiry on myself.

[00:42:37] So for those reasons and the concepts that it can unfold for people, that is one that I would recommend.

[00:42:44] Miriam: All right. Thank you.. I asked that question mostly for me. I figure other people will get benefit out of it, but I love to read, and I like to hear what people are reading and what’s brought value to them.

Talk to Your Younger Self

[00:42:56] If you could turn back time and you could speak [00:43:00] to a younger version of you someone who is just starting business, what advice would you give to yourself?

Making Peace

[00:43:09] Draskco: So the first thing that pops into my mind when you ask that question is what I would tell them is to make peace with. And for somebody, anybody follows Gary V like he usually says this quote by like the macro patients and then like micro speed, meaning, make peace with the fact that the things you want are going to come a lot slower than you actually think they are and make peace with while you hold the space for that patience to Excel and accept.

[00:43:48] That is not the reason to not like execute in the micro. So in like the, day-to-day the moment to moment with speed, with fervor, with enthusiasm, like that’s really [00:44:00] where it’s at. And even with that, the statement still holds. Cause I think that’s something that screwed me up. In the path, especially with the first business where I would want things to be happening more than they were actually happening.

[00:44:14] So again, fighting with reality, and that would pull me into all of these holes that oftentimes I think even led to like depression and things like that. So that is one thing that I would definitely pass.

[00:44:27] Miriam: . The thing that I value about that as somewhere out there is a younger version of someone who needs to hear that, you know, and you’re encouraging that space in that person to pay attention to those variables.

The Nature Conservancy

[00:44:41] One thing that my company likes to do is just as a thank you to our guests do a gift to a nonprofit and I listed out a couple and he chose the nature Conservancy, which I love because they buy up land and preserve it for.

[00:44:57] Our children and our children’s children. [00:45:00] And that’s one of the ways that I like to do good in the world is to look for other people who are doing it and support them. So I was excited when you chose that this has been such a fun interview.

[00:45:12] Before we get off, how can people find you.

[00:45:15] Draskco: Yeah, so that part’s really easy. Everything’s that up level mind. So whether you go to Uplevel, mine.com and you can dive into everything that’s related to the podcast, the, the program, the contact more about me or, you know, Uplevel mind coaching on Instagram is probably the next other place.

[00:45:32] But off level of mine is the podcasts on Spotify, et cetera. So anything you want to do with me, you will find that it Uplevel mind. So that part’s pretty simple. That’s great Drasco. You are my first Serbian friend and what a great experience. So thank you so much. Thank you as well.

Ending Credits

[00:45:54] I hope you enjoy this episode. If you want to pursue [00:46:00] more in the self-development realm for you and your business, contact us at dot com, where you leave better. And in addition, you leave the people in earth around you better as well. Think about this where you are currently is as a result of the decisions you made six months.

[00:46:17] Similarly, the actions you take today set you up for six months from now. So do something today that pushes you toward that next level of you. One last thing before you go become the dealer of growth in your sphere of influence by sharing this episode with two friends. And if you’d like to help me personally leave a review because yes, that actually does help now go be intentional.


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