Make the Most of Opportunities – Rob Jacomen

Rob Jacomen

[00:00:00] Miriam: All right. I am so happy guys to have with me my friend Rob Jacomen. We met just really relatively recently. We were both doing and are both doing an online course and, generally I find in those things, I don’t have opportunity to create relationships. And Rob has been so great with just offering help and you just have been a bright spot in the class, and I thought it would be fun to profile your company and just have a good conversation about helping people overcome their self-sabotage and reaching their next level.

[00:00:32] So welcome.

[00:00:33] Rob: Miriam, thank you so much. It’s an honor and a pleasure to be on your show.

[00:00:37] Miriam: So Rob, why don’t we start by you giving us just a teeny profile of your company, who you are, what you do, and then we’ll get a little history of how you got from A to B.

[00:00:47] HPX Agency

[00:00:47] Rob: I have an agency called hpx Agency. We are, basically a high performance working with high performance producers in the insurance industry.

[00:00:55] We work with agencies, producers, brokers, we work, our focus is really to transform the. And transform the way things are done in the industry to help people achieve a higher level of growth, personal development, helping them to build multimillion dollar books of business. And so that basically became my passion.

[00:01:17] I spent over 18 years of my career in the industry and, was very successful. And now just want to share my wisdom and how I built my book of business and share it with others and help others succeed. Really what I love more than anything is helping to, make a difference in someone’s life and, and really to help them transform not only their business, but also see them grow. And, and that’s such a cool thing in, in our industry.

Helping Someone Grow

[00:01:42] Miriam: Yeah, well you’re, you’re preaching to the choir here because I believe exactly the same thing.

[00:01:48] There is nothing as much fun as helping someone reach that next level of growth or insight, revenue, what, you know, whatever.

[00:01:57] When you and I were talking the other day, somehow we got off a little bit onto things like sustainability and we both love trees. And you mentioned that you were raised on an organic farm.

[00:02:08] You are the first person I have met who has been, has any experience with organic farming. So we’re gonna go way, way back and talk to me a little bit about your organic farming experience. So then we’re gonna go from there to your. Yeah, it’s such a great thing. I grew up on, I basically, I grew up on a farm, um, for most of my life.

[00:02:29] Organic Farming

[00:02:29] Rob: And, and I grew up in an area of Pennsylvania, which had, you know, Amish and, and, um, Mennonites and my uncle was a farmer, so really was in my, in my family and my blood. And I just, I just loved, you know, there’s something really cool about just being out in nature and going out in the fields and really what that experience did for me is have a true appreciation for, for nature and animals and protecting the earth.

[00:02:57] Incidentally, I ended up, you know, going to school to become a nerdy engineer, specifically an environmental engineer of all things because of my passion for nature and, uh, preserving the environment and just being a good steward, steward of the environment. And, then ended up going to graduate school, at the Uni uva University of Virginia, and had an opportunity to take some classes in the School of Architecture.

[00:03:23] And at that, Sustainability was becoming such a huge thing.

[00:03:28] I mean, we’re talking years ago.

[00:03:30] But really that was at the beginning of that, really that new awareness of sustainability and sustainable communi. And I just became fascinated with how we could integrate livable communities inside of nature.

[00:03:45] And it doesn’t have to compete with each other. It can be a symbiotic thing where there’s a respect for nature and, um, you know, and, and people were surrounded by green spaces and, you know, those things I think are just so important for, for, uh, people’s health and wellbeing. So I then ended up, you know, getting into that profession.

Protect the Earth

[00:04:05] Absolutely loving it because I could make a difference. Obviously I transitioned to something else, but I always that was always inside of my heart. My heart always was, Hey, I love the environment.

[00:04:18] I love protecting our earth. I still read and stay on top of, of new developments and green buildings, how green buildings are built and how companies can, uh, use waste minimization and recycling and all these different, technologies. You know, we’ve come a long way. So that was something that’s always interested me and I, I still keep it with me to this.

[00:04:41] Miriam: Do you have any suggestions for the listeners? I, I think it’s easy to get kind of discouraged. All of the news talks about, you know, how everything’s being destroyed and just. We’re not even, I mean, the latest thing I read was that all the plastic the United States is creating or consuming is not even being recycled anymore.

[00:05:03] And I, I think that for someone who cares about it as much as you do, as much as I do, I know this isn’t the main topic of our podcast, that I want us to talk about it because we’re integrated human beings. And it’s not all just about if you’re having success in one area but not in another, then you’re still not succeeding.

[00:05:23] Sustainability for the Planet

[00:05:23] Miriam: So what are some ways that we as individuals can make a difference in the sustainability of our planet?

[00:05:31] Rob: You know, I think, I think what I see right now going on is there’s so many different groups or different different groups who have specific interests. You know, you have the, the people over here protecting, you know, water and clean, clean water, and you have clean air.

[00:05:49] You have sustainability and sustainable communities. You have all these different groups doing. Who are all passionate about their, their certain area. But really I think what we all need to do a better job of is all coming together. And really what it boils down to, in my opinion, is education and technology.

[00:06:09] Like there are some advantages to some of the innovation that has occurred in, in the sustainability community and in terms of, of green buildings. Like we’ve come a long. But economics does not always have to compete with protecting the environment. And I think it’s not a zero sum game. It’s not like, Oh, we’re gonna sacrifice one for the other, or, you know, we don’t As, as somebody who’s concerned about the environment, I also don’t wanna put companies outta business.

[00:06:37] I want there to, to be more, Let’s all get on the same page and have a certain level of respect and stewardship for the environment. And I don’t believe that one side versus the other, like one side doesn’t wanna destroy the environment. The other side, you know, is, is only concerned about the the environment.

Don’t Become Extreme

[00:06:54] I think there’s a, I think there’s a healthy middle ground that we all can, can live and we can use innovation and use technology to our advantage. I think we can all come together as, Hey, we all have common interests and I think we all agree on the same end, and that is we want to protect the earth and we want to protect our children’s future.

[00:07:17] Not be selfish, but think about the consequences of the decisions that we make today for, for the future. And I, I think there’s a real opportunity for us to do that without getting extreme. You know, I think there’s a healthy middle ground that, that everybody can agree to. We wanna be on this planet as long as we possibly can.

[00:07:35] I think we can all agree to that.

[00:07:38] Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate what you’re saying about not becoming extreme and also the technology technological spaces. I have a friend who is building a, new home and she’s requesting the carbon capture concrete, I guess it’s a special, unique thing and she’s having a hard time getting her developer to sign off on it, and she just keeps after ’em and keeps after ’em and says, No, this is what I want.

Have Converstations

[00:08:04] The research says it’s equally sound and I know it’s a little bit more expensive and it’s what I want.

[00:08:10] And I was showing another person who is into building houses, this glass that has this special, um, I wanna say there’s an iridescence to it that allows birds to see it so they don’t just crash into it and kill themselves on it.

[00:08:25] So I think there are ways to do it and, I appreciate what you say about coming together and having conversations.

[00:08:32] So, okay. You, you went from the farm, then you went to school, you became an engineer, and then you went into this architecture space. How did you get from there to where you are now?

[00:08:45] Take Opportunities

[00:08:45] Rob: So, so I really became, I, I’ve really been that guy who, number one, I hated working for somebody else and it just used to drive me crazy. So I always knew I had that entrepreneurial blood inside of me

[00:08:57] I encourage a young generation to do this as well. Start to experiment and get into as many different things as you can.

[00:09:04] You don’t always have to like, do something you don’t like or, or like be stuck doing one thing forever. Like I really believe that the beauty of life and the beauty of being in business is try a few different things and see what really resonates with you. See like what makes your heart sing and, and like, When you, when you can honestly say to yourself, Wow, I could, I feel like I can do this and make a difference in someone’s life.

[00:09:29] Like even as strange as this sounds, even if I didn’t like necessarily what I was doing or selling at the time, I try to say to myself, How can I make this an opportunity, right? To make a difference. Impact somebody or give, it helps somebody achieve a transformation. So that’s why even over the course of my career, I went from engineer to business owner to getting in the health and wellness industry.

Health and Wellness

[00:09:59] That was just a fascinating world. For several years I owned my own, um, health and wellness centers, so, Had two health and wellness centers that I was involved in helping to, you know, when people were at the end of the road with, uh, the allopathic model, you know, and, and really wanted it, they were just tired of the, the, the runaround with medications and being sick and, and just wanted to find some way to

[00:10:23] be healthy and and to truly heal. So we found a lot of those people, um, were attracted to our model and so we focused on custom attrition and putting people on a, what we called the healing diet and really started to see people’s lives transform. So that was a period in my life, which it was fascinating and I loved it because it was really making a difference in people’s lives.

[00:10:47] And then I migrated to getting into the insurance industry and using my science and engineering background to really get into safety and risk management and, um, helping businesses become more conscious about safety and how to better manage risk inside of their business. Not only to protect their, their employees, but also just to be more proactive about, you know, managing how they’re managing their business.

Make an Impact

[00:11:13] So that’s where I am right now. That’s where I. Where I am right now is I was very successful as a producer, so I I, I was working in the, in the insurance agency side, then decided, Hey, you know what? I don’t want to just do this for myself. I want to help other agents and producers be successful and help them grow their businesses and help them grow a multimillion dollar book of business.

[00:11:40] And that’s where I am today and the impact that I’m able to make and, and the difference I’m able to make in people’s lives today. Is again, I go back to the same theme anywhere you go or anywhere I’ve been. I’ve always thought of ways that I could really make an impact and, and change people’s lives for the better.

[00:11:59] And uh, that’s always been a common theme throughout my entire career.

[00:12:04] Miriam: I love that you’re saying that because I was just about, in my mind, I was thinking, okay, we each have these themes that run through our lives, and anybody who had had was older than two decades has a little bit of data behind them.

[00:12:19] You start seeing these commonalities, at least in the jobs that you have loved

[00:12:24] you know, I was talking to someone the other day and I said, I’ve always been a coach.

[00:12:28] First. I did it when I was in high school listening to all my friends and their boyfriend problems and their girlfriend problems, and it’s always been, Let me listen to you.

Mentoring

[00:12:37] I’ll find out where you’re stuck. I’ll help you get to that next, whatever that next level.

[00:12:43] When I was in, After I graduated from college, I spent 25 years in a mentoring program with students doing the same thing. Where are you stuck? How can I help you? And then, you know, I became a therapist. Same thing.

[00:12:58] Where are you stuck? How can I help you? And then I moved into this coaching space with businesses and it’s, it’s fascinating to see this golden thread that runs through all of it.

[00:13:09] At my core, that’s who I am. And at your core, what I heard you saying, You like to help people’s lives change and transform, but it’s a little bit different than the way I do it.

[00:13:18] I think. I love this notion of, of you like kind of pushing and excelling people forward – whenever you talk about your business, like when we’re in that, group class, You always have a lot of energy, positive energy where you’re like clearly enthused about what you’re doing.

[00:13:37] How do you help yourself or others when they get discouraged?

[00:13:42] You strike me as someone who is fundamentally optimistic, but I don’t know. Speak to that.

[00:13:46] Find What Works For You

[00:13:46] Rob: Yes, very much so. It’s actually, it’s, it’s funny because even. People who know me very well, know me as like the, uh, I’m the guy that bounces outta bed in the morning, like, Right, what are we doing? Let’s do this. You know, like, let’s go, let’s, let’s make some stuff happen.

[00:14:03] Right? It also, Reflects in the things I feed myself, feed my brain, feed my spirit.

[00:14:10] I read a phenomenal book, by hell Elrod, which, you know, he talks about the miracle mourning, you know, And I started to incorporate that into my life several years ago and, and really made a huge, huge impact on how I started my day.

[00:14:27] And, you know, the question I get a lot is, And there’s so much out there online about, Hey, what’s your routine? How do you get excited for the day? How do you start your morning? Do you do meditation? Do you do this? You know, and it’s funny because I do what works for me and everybody can develop their own routine that works for them.

[00:14:47] Some people like to work out in the morning. Some people like to work out at nighttime. It all depends how you, how your body responds to things or how you function the the point. As long as you do, are doing those things that are good for your heart, good for your spirit, um, good for your overall wellness and your wellbeing to get you started, to get you motivated, to get you excited, to inspire you to, and maybe it’s tapping into other people when you’re not feeling great.

Tough Love

[00:15:18] You’re like, Hey, I’m gonna call my friend Miriam, and she’s, she’s gonna lift me up, right? Anyone who knows me, Knows that they can reach out to me anytime and if there’s something I can do to pick you up or inspire you, or you know, maybe even hold you, hold you, hold you to the fire and say, Listen, you know, you’re giving me a bunch of excuses right now.

[00:15:39] There’s a little bit of tough love there too, and, and accountability. I’m, I also love doing that because I really feel like sometimes people need that as well. I’m not gonna let you play the victim and, you know, woe is me. It’s, Hey, what do we need to do to think differently about the situation? What do we need to do differently to turn this around?

[00:15:59] How, if, if things were perfect, what would that look like? And start to talk through some of those things. And I do that for, for myself too. It’s like that self talk. I wasn’t always like that necessarily, but I always had, I’ve grown over the years, but I’ve always had that level of faith, belief, high energy.

[00:16:21] And now over time, as I got older, It just changed and, and got better. So I started reading more. Um, you know, there’s so many phenomenal books out there that just help contribute to how can I make myself better every single day? Like Atomic Habits, for example. How can you just improve 1% every day and, and focus on that?

Opportunity to Help Others

[00:16:45] That’s a positive thing, you know? And, and we went through a really tough time the last few years. It had been really tough for a lot of people, but at the end of the. We’re still here, we’re still, we still have a phenomenal opportunity to help somebody else, to make a difference in someone else’s life.

[00:17:01] And sometimes when you do something for others and you give and you serve and you have that servant mentality, sometimes that turns around your own mind trap that’s going on and can help you flip that switch. And, and that for me has always worked really well.

[00:17:18] Miriam: Yeah. Wow.

[00:17:19] Well spoken. I don’t know that there’s a whole lot that can be said after that. That’s like, okay, and now we’re gonna take a commercial break. Just kidding, .

[00:17:28] Rob: But the thing is, everybody, everybody can do that. You have Yeah. Have that power inside of you. That, that, So, so, so you’re feeling things aren’t going your way.

[00:17:40] Right? So things aren’t necessarily going your way. Okay. If you have an acknowledgement that. I’m not where I want to be, but I know where I want to go. Okay. What are the, what’s the next right step? What’s the next thing you should you, you and you in your heart or in your mind, you know, that you need to start doing that.

Opportunity Mindset

[00:18:01] I always say this, it’s, it’s funny when I talk to sales people because you know, I’m like totally into sales, totally into marketing. Totally love that whole world. And sometimes in sales you experience a lot of rejection, right? So I’m like, Listen, what’s the next thing you can do to build some momentum?

[00:18:21] And the the, the fastest and easiest solution when you’re in the dumps, especially if you’re in sales, is activity because activity breeds results eventually. Right? So you might experience a lot of rejection, a lot of rejection, a lot of rejection. You’re like, Oh man, this is so hard. Yeah, of course it’s hard, right?

[00:18:42] But if you keep on going and you keep on going, eventually you’re gonna get to the end of where you want to go. Or all the sudden these amazing things are gonna happen, especially if you have a good mindset about.

[00:18:54] I’m a big believer in the law of attraction. I, I, I really believe that there is a whole mindset, and that’s why I’m big believer in meditation.

[00:19:04] It really calms that brain and calms that mind down. When I’m experiencing stress, I sometimes will take a step back and say, You know what, I’m just gonna sit quiet for 10 minutes. And just breathe and just kind of meditate and just let all that chatter just kind of settle down and, and like relax. And that has always been a great solution to, uh, to those stressful situations in life that we all experience.

[00:19:30] So, Hopefully that might help somebody.

Stick to It

[00:19:32] Miriam: Yeah, . Yeah. I hope so too. I absolutely hope so too. And I agree with you. Do you have any stories about having to stick to something even though it was hard?

[00:19:43] Rob: You know, where I draw the most? I’ve been an athlete my entire life and I think what I’ve drawn so much from being an athlete and the lessons that I learned from setting goals to persevering through tough times to, you know what? I can do an extra rep, I can, I can run an extra mile.

[00:20:04] You know, when I wanted to quit. You know, sometimes you don’t always like to do this stuff. It’s like, do I want to get up in the morning to work out? Do I want to go for that 10 mile run? Or, you know, I’m training for a marathon. So I’ve done marathons, I’ve done Ironman races, Um, I did all those things that I call that like, BC before children

[00:20:25] So it’s like before children when I had the time it like, and now my kids are starting to get older. So it’s kind of cool to watch them grow as adults and, and, uh, like my son is now a professional, uh, he’s a professional soccer player, so, um, you know, To see him now grow and develop into that man and, and into that professional, like he’s living a dream that I always dreamed of myself when I was younger.

Sports and Business

[00:20:49] You know, I think as young men, we, we sometimes think of like if you’re an athlete, you’re always dreaming of, well maybe there’s another level there. Maybe I can be a pro or be a professional someday. And uh, now he’s living that and I’m tru, I’m so excited for him. But I think sport, the sports and athletics, Really taught me a lot about business and life and about setting goals and about just like getting through some hard times just by being, you know, persevering and through hard work.

[00:21:20] If you surround yourself with the right people and, and you work smart and you focus on the things that you are really gifted at and let other people like bring in other people to help you get to where you want to go, that maybe fill in the gaps where you’re not as strong, I think is really the secret.

[00:21:39] That’s one of the things that really learned over the years and, and grew. I went from like this workaholic. You know, grind mentality to like, wait a minute, that doesn’t make sense. I, I need to work smarter and surround myself with people who are smarter than me. And, um, I think that’s been like one of the areas where I’ve evolved.

[00:21:56] And eventually over, over time as I got smarter, I’m like, I don’t have to work so hard. I just have to be smart about it. And.

Internalized Discipline

[00:22:03] Miriam: Yeah. I wonder if sometimes that happens because as we age we get tireder and so it’s like, awesome. I gotta learn how to do me smarter about this because I don’t have the same kind of energy I had when I was in my twenties.

[00:22:16] So the question I’m curious about, I have watched an entire generation of athletes grow up being in soccer or. Little peewee football or whatever it is from the time they’re, I mean, they’re starting at like age three or four now, and I have watched generations of kids come up and what I’ve seen is that they’re incredibly, um, disciplined.

[00:22:43] When they have their coach telling them what to do, but once they graduate out of that space, like maybe they finish high school and they move into the college space, or if they’re a collegiate athlete and then they grow past that. I’ve seen an awful lot of people be kind of like a kite whose string was cut.

[00:23:02] You know how when there’s that tension in a kite and then you cut the string and the kite just kind of flails all over the place because that discipline wasn’t internalized. It was like, Yeah, I can do it because you’re telling me to do it. But it didn’t move into the center of themselves. And I was gonna ask you clearly you have an internal locus of control.

[00:23:25] What did you do that helped you know that you are the captain of your ship and the master of your fate? Obviously, you know, within reason.

[00:23:36] Take Control

[00:23:36] Rob: You bring up some really interesting questions about how, you know, I also think as generations, we, we grew up in a, in a certain generation, um, that was a little bit, I, I feel like it was a little more gritty and a little bit more like, Hey, you gotta.

[00:23:50] You gotta take the bull by the horns. And like, if you wanna make things happen, it’s up to you. Like you’ve gotta put in the hard work. You’ve gotta, if, if that’s a goal of yours, figure out how, how you need to get there. And I also think some of the new generation. And I noticed this since in, in youth sports is just a different mentality about how to interact and engage with the, the youth.

[00:24:17] Um, I personally believe like the old school approach of, of discipline and regimen, uh, is very valuable and beneficial because I really think that some of the youth, they, they need that direction. They need some guidance. So I think as we get older, as adults, We start to lose that a little bit of, of like, it’s kind of like that lifeline and it’s why I’m involved with, like, I think we all need to practice what we preach, and that is if the only way to get to where you want to go, I believe is not only surrounding yourself with the right people, but also having the right coaches, the right mentors, the people that you can latch onto in, in your life, especially early on in your career where you can say, Hey, John.

Coaches

[00:25:03] Like I remember my mentors in, in the industry that, that I started in and I’m like, I really relied on them to, Hey, I’m so determined. I wanna be successful in this business. I wanna learn it. I’m gonna approach someone who’s already been where I want to go, who’s already successful, and, and. And model their success and, and talked with them and picked their brain and say, Hey, will you mentor me?

[00:25:28] Will you, will you share with me some of the things that worked for you? And then also, like today, I, I believe that there is a reason why professional athletes have coaches. Tiger Woods has his own swing coach. My son has a goalkeeper coach that he works with, uh, who’s on the coaching staff, and they.

[00:25:51] Team meetings and they, they meet separately to talk about strategy and hey, how do, and, and also, role playing and game planning and debriefing. Like, Hey, what did I do well, What did I didn’t do? What didn’t I do well? How, how can I prove here?

[00:26:06] And I think as professionals, we all need a coach, somebody who can help guide us in the right direction and give us that.

[00:26:15] Spark of inspiration and, and, and guidance and direction and, and somebody who, who, who can help give us, Hey, let’s game plan through this. How can we get to where, where you are now? You told me, Rob, your, your goal is x. All right, let’s work together. How do we get there? And then map out a plan to get there.

Give Others Opportunities

[00:26:36] And that’s where you and I met you and I met through, through a, I think, is a phenomenal program and, and I feel extremely blessed to have met you. One of the things I’d like to do in, in our mastermind groups is I like to share my experience and also contribute because if I can help somebody else, I’ve offered to every single person.

[00:26:55] That I’ve interacted with, Hey, I’m a resource for you. Use me. I want to, I want to give back to you. I want to help you in some way. And I, I just offer it to everyone as, as like freely, There’s no strings attached. There’s no, I have no ulterior motive. I have no, like, I’m not looking for them to do business with me.

[00:27:14] My goal is to help you become successful and maybe think about things a different way that you may not have thought about yourself. And, and, and that’s really become now my mission is just to help as many people as I can openly and freely and just give and, and just serve. You know? And I think if we just focus, if we all focused on that a little bit more, I, I, I think you’d get a lot farther away, farther along in life in a business.

[00:27:39] Miriam: Yeah, I agree with you. I have watched you help different people in that group, and your face lights up, like you end up. It gives you joy. It’s not something that takes energy from you. It’s something that gives energy to you. And I have experienced the same thing with the various, um, business owners that I coach.

Business Insights

[00:27:58] I’m never tired when I come back from that space. It’s just a privilege to be invited into someone’s life and to be invited into a contribu. Space.

[00:28:08] So it’s also really fun when you ask the question that stops them in their tracks. I asked a young entrepreneur a question, This was about two weeks ago, and his eyes dilated.

[00:28:22] He got this look shocked look on his face, and then he and I said, What’s going on inside you? And he. Uh, Freak. I know you’re right, . And it was, it was an awesome moment because, um, it was a question I asked. I didn’t state make a statement. I asked a question and he knew inside the direction that, um, we were going.

[00:28:47] He was like, Oh my gosh. In the end it saved him about $90,000. So I felt good about that. That’s, you know, that’s a win. It’s a win, right? It’s a win. It’s a win. So, um, let’s see.

[00:29:01] What kind of insight or business process has been, you know, really impactful or insightful to you in the last, I don’t know, couple months?

[00:29:11] Rob: One of the areas that I, I found that has really brought me the most, has been the most insightful to me, and also I’m able to now help others do this, is create systems and processes inside of your business so that it creates, a systematic way of performing things over and over and over, which can produce a very specific result or outcome.

Learn Something New

[00:29:40] Right. So rather than having this hodgepodge, haphazard way of, of operating, whether it be marketing or business development, sales, um, operations, creating those systems and procedures so that everybody on the team knows exactly what their, what their role is, what their contribution needs to be, um, you have systems in place, automations, like, one thing I’ve really learned is you.

[00:30:07] I don’t need to be an expert in technology. I wanna know enough to be dangerous. So what I did is I learned how to use Premier Pro to edit videos. I learned how to use Zapier to create automations in workflows. I learned it by, you know, it’s amazing youTube is an amazing resource. , so is Google. If you ever wanna learn something, listen, all you need to do is type it in there and say, I wanna learn how to do.

[00:30:35] Well, I’ll tell you what happened as a result of doing that, rather than just delegating it to somebody else, I actually learned it myself so I could understand the process and the system and the way things worked so that I could share it with somebody else. Or if I hire somebody to help me perform that particular function or activity or, or processes in inside my company, I then have a frame of reference for how it should be done and also the time it takes to do something or a task

Take a Step Back

[00:31:10] the results and the outcome on the other side is once you set that thing up the first time on the front end, and then let it work and let it, and then maybe tweak and test results and maybe do some AB testing, but setting up the systems so that it operates for you.

[00:31:29] And that’s one of the things I learned in, in our, um, in our program that, that we’re, that we are in, is setting up those systems so that you don’t have to operate, be the operator all the time in your business, that you actually can take a step back and work on the business and not always be in the business and working on fulfillment.

[00:31:50] And, and that’s one of the takeaways I think I could share with you and, and hopefully that answers your question.

[00:31:55] The biggest thing, the biggest takeaway, what I encourage everybody is develop the processes, a unique process, and the systems inside your. business Which not only can make it function better and be more efficient, but also deliver the value to your customer, deliver a consistent result time in time, again, over and over and over, so that you’re delivering the most value that you possibly can for, for your customers.

[00:32:22] Miriam: And the only thing I would add is that I think that entrepreneurs also need to do that in their life because sometimes their businesses hum right along and they can’t ever find their keys, or they’re just, So disorganized in their actual life. And it’s like you have to have both.

[00:32:39] You have to have systems and processes for your life, and you have to have systems and processes for your business.

[00:32:46] Goal-Setting

[00:32:46] Miriam: So Rob, we’re just about to the end here. This is kind of a question out of left field, but I thought I’d ask it and just see what comes of it, uh, in the last six months, what is a hundred dollars or less purchase you’ve made that you’re like, Man, I’m so glad I did.

[00:33:03] Rob: You know, one thing does come to mind. So, So I have a very good friend, and it’s actually somebody who, I used to work with and then he, you know, I, I kind of focused on a whole different niche in the marketplace.

[00:33:17] He’s a friend who, runs a company called Three by Five Life, and they’re these, it’s actually really cool. They’re these, there are these simple note cards, right, which there’s different themes and there’s goal setting, and then, , but there’s something on here that’s really, really important that, that I’ve incorporated into my life that has been so impactful.

[00:33:41] And that is every day I pull out this card and I write down three things that I’m grateful for, and, and then I can carry this card with me and fold it up really nicely and carry it with me in my pocket. And every once in a while. I can reach out, reach into my pocket and say, You know what, what are three things I’m grateful for?

Emotional Growth

[00:34:02] And usually those things that are on there usually have to do with my family, my kids, my relationships, my, you know, my relationships with my fellow colleagues that I’m so grateful that I have. And so this, this has been one of those purchases that I made that’s been like, it’s the simplest, you know, it’s the most simple little thing, but from a mental.

[00:34:26] Emotional and just a growth standpoint. This has been the most impactful for me. I’ve been, I’ve been using these for a while now, and it’s just, it’s become a habit. Every single morning I wake up and I’m like, Okay, what am I grateful for? What are the, what are the three top tasks on my list that I, and I, I write the tasks on here, and then I write a theme.

Daily Theme

[00:34:46] What’s my theme today? Today’s theme was about courage. Because I was on my run this morning and I thought to myself, What’s my theme today? And, and I thought about it. I’m like, You know what, what came to my mind was courage. Having the courage to do things that I maybe normally would overthink or maybe not do because I, I’m held back by something, by fear or by something.

[00:35:09] But what if I was just a little bit more courageous today? What if I just had a little more courage to do something? Maybe made me feel uncomfortable. It pushed me outside of my comfort zone. So then I wrote that down like, this is what I, This is the courage I want to have today, and this is, this is the action I want to take to push me outside of my comfort zone.

[00:35:29] And sometimes it, for me, that brings me joy because I can then at the end of the day, look at this card and go, Hey, you know what? That was a win. And then there’s a column here for putting your wins, right? That was a little win. Chalk up those little wins because they add up to a lot. And even if it’s like creating micro goals, little things that you know you can accomplish throughout the day helps you build momentum, helps, helps to fuel that, that inspiration and, and to keep you moving forward.

[00:35:57] Miriam: That is great. Thank you so much for just like taking the time to share that. We’ll put that, that resource in the show notes.

[00:36:04] We’ve come to the end of our time.

[00:36:06] Find Rob

[00:36:06] Miriam: Would you just share how people can reach you if they would like to ask more questions about who you are and what you do?

[00:36:12] Rob: Yeah, the best place, honestly, I am on LinkedIn, um, and Rob Jacomen, reach out to me on LinkedIn, send me a message. You know, and by the way, I’m a big fan of personal video, so if you wanna send me a personalized video and introduce yourself, I’d love it.

[00:36:29] I’d be really impressed because it’s something that we do. Video has become such a important part of our business model because we really believe that it personalizes that connection and that relationship with somebody.

[00:36:41] Shoot me an email, shoot me a text. I respond to everything.

[00:36:45] Miriam: Very good. Okay. Well I mentioned before we started that as a thank you. We are doing a gift in a donation in your name to the Nature Conservancy. We started out talking about sustainability. We’ll end talking about sustainability.

[00:37:00] Rob, thank you so much. Just appreciate you.

[00:37:03] Rob: I’m so grateful to have met you and, and, again, it’s been an honor.

End Credits

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Podcasts, or wherever podcasts are found.

Full audio episode found here.

Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

All LeaveBetter Podcast episodes can be found here.

Music by Tom Sherlock.

If you are curious to know more, please contact me!

As someone who has been a therapist for over a decade and has been coaching people for over three decades, I am uniquely qualified to address your concerns.

 

Define Your Own Success with Jesse Biondi and Melissa LeEllen

Melissa & Jesse

[00:00:00] Miriam: Hey guys, today it is super fun because it is my first time interviewing two people at once. I have Melissa and Jessie here today, and they are the owners and creators of Creative Global Entertainment. And there’s so much more beyond that. They also have a podcast reimagine success. We’re gonna get into the weeds with all of this, but Melissa, you’re an actress, you’re a marketing director, a producer, a comic book creator, writer, motivational speaker, podcast host.

[00:00:33] That’s a lot of hats to wear. And then Jessie, you’re a musician of all instruments, but cello guitar. . Also a podcast host, producer, teacher, motivational speakers. You guys like are the whole package . So I’m really happy to have you here. I can’t wait to see where our conversation goes.

[00:00:53] Melissa: Thank you so

[00:00:54] Jessie & Melissa: much

[00:00:54] Jesse: for that.

[00:00:54] We’re so happy to be here.

[00:00:56] Melissa: This is so much fun. We love we love what you’re doing by the way. We love everything about your podcast and we are so excited to be a part of it. Yeah.

[00:01:05] Jesse: Our goal in life is just to make the world a better place and what better place to do that than the Leave Better podcast.

[00:01:11] So thank you for having us.

[00:01:13] Defining Success

[00:01:13] Miriam: Awesome. All right. Well, I think where I’m gonna start is your podcast is called Reimagine Success, and something in some of the materials I was reading that I really appreciated is that you said success comes in many forms. Everyone wants to keep up with the Joneses, but it isn’t always what you think it is.

[00:01:33] Yeah. So if we can start there and talk about maybe some of the things you’ve seen and heard. Where people got to success, whatever that means, and it wasn’t what they thought it was gonna be. Mm-hmm. .

[00:01:45] Jesse: Yeah, absolutely. So we live our lives with that as our mentality. You know, everybody wants more money, everybody wants the bigger house, the cars and all that stuff, but honestly, that’s not how we’ve ever defined success.

[00:01:59] We. You know, both of us have strived our whole lives to live a full life. One that we are fulfilled every single day at the end of the day.

[00:02:07] And on our podcast, we’ve got the privilege of just interviewing so many people that have just outstanding stories.

[00:02:14] And what’s cool about every one of these people, Is that all of their stories are so vastly different and you never know where life is taking these people. Like it’s, it’s the chances and the risks that people take. That pay off. And when they say, You know what? I’ve had enough with this mediocre, mundane life that I’m living and I’m ready to live life fully and just with my whole heart. And that’s when we start seeing people just finding actual success.

[00:02:43] Freedom of Choice

[00:02:43] Miriam: Yeah, that makes sense to me. I think I’ve, I have had this challenge of defining success. What is a successful day? Because you’re right, so many people initially think it’s about money. And to be honest, I think it’s about something different. And one of the ideas or concepts I’m playing with is this notion of freedom that you have.

[00:03:03] You have the freedom to make decisions that are. In the best interests of your mental health or your children’s health or like for, I was working on kind of some fi like regular goals and I was thinking, well, what would it mean success to be successful financially? And I thought, Really, it comes down to never having to make a financial decision because I have too little money.

[00:03:30] It comes down to what is the right financial decision. Yes. Like for example, with a pet, you know, I’m a big animal lover and we have a bunch of rescues. I never wanna put down an animal because I don’t have the resources to take care of them. Mm-hmm. , I wanna do that decision because that’s the right decision for them.

[00:03:50] Right. So that kind of freedom. Anyway, What kind of things, as you have interviewed people or you’ve been in the variety of I mean wearing the variety of hats that you wear, what kind of things have you seen of people who they thought this road was gonna take them to success?

Drop Your Ego

[00:04:12] Melissa: We actually had someone on the podcast that was growing their business and he ended up stepping down as CEO and hiring a CEO in his place. So he dropped his ego because it’s really hard for people to do that to, to come on and let someone else take charge of your business. He ended up doing that and.

[00:04:34] A matter of, of just like a year, I believe. Yeah. It was a real short, short amount of time. It was very short. He grew his business 30 million. Wow. And that’s just taking away the ego, stripping away what you feel like you should be doing and, and letting your, your company go where it needs to go. And sometimes it’s, it’s out of the box and, and you think that, that you shouldn’t be doing it that way, but, When you, when you look at the big picture of where you want and where you want your goals to go, then that’s when you can really be clear and you can see what you need as a company and as a whole and as a community.

[00:05:13] We’re an entire community that is lifting each other up, and that is always building and building each other up to be a community.

[00:05:20] To lift each other up. And that’s at the end of the day, you know what a lot of our clients are doing, They’re lifting each other up in ways that’s very unexpected.

[00:05:30] And that’s, that’s all that we’re doing here at Creative Global Entertainment is where a brand elevation marketing company.

[00:05:37] So anything to elevate your brand. That’s, that’s where, that’s where we.

[00:05:42] Elevate Your Brand

[00:05:42] Jesse: And what’s cool too is not only have we seen this in our guest lives, but we’ve seen it in our own lives. Yeah. For me, my whole life before, I’ll say BM before Melissa because we’ve, we’ve been married for a little over a year now and we dated for exactly one year before we got married.

[00:06:01] We were doing some odds and end things, but then I ended up getting another corporate job where I was making more money than I had ever made in my entire life. And I was like, I. This is great. I’m making all this money and everything’s good, except for my soul was dying.

[00:06:15] Yeah. And we are actually both working for this company at the same time. This was right before we really, really launched the new rebranding of Creative Global.

[00:06:24] And by a stroke of luck, as you would have it the company ended up downsizing and cut our entire department. And I say, luck, because most people would look at that and be like, Wow, that’s horrible.

[00:06:39] You both lost your jobs in one fail swoop. And mind you, I was making more money than I’d ever made in my life. She was making more money than me. Melissa was like, All right, we’re gonna the lake, you know, cuz this was last summer.

[00:06:52] Yeah,

Take a Breath

[00:06:52] Melissa: well, I, I had the idea, we need to stop what we’re doing. We need to take a breath, we need to take a pause, and we need to go out and do something that we enjoy, which was the lake. And we got out there and we’re on a raft and we see the mountains in the backdrop. And just the lake is just beautiful and calm.

[00:07:11] Just a calming day. The sun is shining, you know, it’s shining through the trees and it’s just a beautiful day. And we’re relaxed and we’re in a happy place and we just let it go. And then we come back into the office and then that’s when we get busy. You know, you have to take that breath. And that’s what a lot of people forget.

[00:07:31] Jesse: And it’s, it’s crazy though because you know my family. They thought, Oh, you finally got this great job. Everything’s wonderful, You’re on the right path. But that wasn’t the right path for me, the right path for me involved having freedom, having, you know, a life that I’m excited about living and not doing some corporate job that just was literally killing us both and.

Pursue Dreams

[00:07:56] So now we are happier than we’ve ever been. We’re pursuing our dreams, our goals, helping other people in real tangible ways, and it’s just been so fulfilling. And we get to do these little dances all the time because we’re, we’re doing the things that are goals, and we’re reaching those goals and we celebrate all of our victories, big or small.

[00:08:16] Miriam: Wow, so much, first of all, I, I, I just wanna say you guys are clearly newly married, . You guys are super smiley and very happy, which is just fun. It’s fun to see. Secondly unless you come from entrepreneurial parents, they all freak out when you leave the corporate job with the insurance.

[00:08:38] And I mean, parents wanna see their kids do okay, and that feels really safe to them. And entrepreneurism feels not safe at all. Yeah.

[00:08:47] Freedom For Your Soul

[00:08:47] Miriam: What were the clues that th this corporate space was killing your soul?

[00:08:54] Like, h how did it show up and how did you know even before the job disappeared that you needed to like do something? I.

[00:09:04] Melissa: I looked at my life in corporate, and you can take that into any corporate. You know, company that you would like to look at, and the owner is the one who makes the decisions. So, you know, when I was doing my marketing plan, when I was doing my campaigns, you know, I always had to get this approval from the owner and.

[00:09:26] And everything was, was approved. I opened up four businesses from rebranding phase on while I was with them, and it was an amazing learning experience. But what I realized from my soul and what my soul needs is freedom. I need the freedom to express my creativity and the ways that I need to express it.

[00:09:48] So I started my business in 2009 and I said, You know what? I’m gonna do this the way that I wanna do it. And I’ve had a lot of success. Of course, as entrepreneurs, as business owners, there’s rebranding, there’s the economy changes, there’s fluctuations.

[00:10:04] Jesse: You know, for me, I didn’t know about being an entrepreneur. I didn’t know that you could have a life with freedom. And so I took this job and, you know, beyond.

Attitude of Success

[00:10:15] That was really painful to work in that environment. Just the daily nonsense of what we were doing, just. Chipped away a little bit at a time.

[00:10:26] And you know, at first I was like, Oh, well my job’s pretty easy and I can get it done in a short amount of time, and, and that, that ma means that like, I’m getting paid a lot more. But that money didn’t. Make it better that I was doing this garbage work.

[00:10:43] Melissa: Like it doesn’t fulfill you.

[00:10:44] Jesse: Yeah. When, when you’re doing something that you truly, Yeah, just don’t enjoy you, you wake up every day with a sense of dread, like, Oh, I just don’t want to turn on my computer today.

[00:10:55] I don’t wanna put on my dress shirt today. I don’t want to sit behind that desk all day and, and talk to these people all day. And. Wake up with that feeling well the rest of your day is shot. You know, cuz you’re automatically going into something with a bad attitude and a bad mindset. And mindset is the most crucial thing ever.

[00:11:14] If you can’t walk into something with a clear mind and heart and knowing that like you’re doing something that you love, then you’re setting yourself up for failure to begin with.

[00:11:23] It takes a lot of energy and effort to be in a creative space and for us it’s more of a deep rooted passion. Mm-hmm. Without that, our lives are empty and we feel depressed.

Enjoy Your Work

[00:11:37] And so working outside of what it is that you are passionate about is the fastest way to kill yourself, honestly. Mm-hmm. .

[00:11:46] Miriam: Yeah. I forget who said this, but they said, If you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life.

[00:11:52] Jesse: That quote rings true with us every single day because since we left that job and are doing creative global, seriously, it never feels like work.

[00:12:01] Melissa: It’s.

[00:12:02] An amazing feeling to know that you are helping a small business, like really get their voice heard and mm-hmm and to elevate their brand. And not, not only that, but it in turn, it helps us. It, it fulfills our soul and we’re able to be creative every single day by doing it.

[00:12:21] Miriam: It’s a win. It sounds like a win.

[00:12:22] You’re in your sweet spot. Okay, so I’m gonna move away from business for a second.

[00:12:27] Since you are newlyweds- a lot of business, it’s super hard on marriages. A lot of marriages go away. And that isn’t just for business owners, it’s for anybody. Yeah. What have you learned in this process about relating to one another?

[00:12:45] Like what gives some good marriage tips? Yeah.

[00:12:49] Communication in Relationships

[00:12:49] Melissa: First of all, communication. It’s so important. So important, and you have to find. Not everyone is gonna like everything that everybody does. Like, you know, someone could love the ballet. The other person doesn’t necessarily love the ballet, but it’s all about balance in a relationship, and it’s about caring and supporting and honestly being each other’s number one fan, Number one cheerleader.

[00:13:16] Number one supporter. Like Jesse. I go to his concert and I know every word to his songs. I, you know, dance I, I support and I don’t care if no one else is dancing in the room. I am dancing because not only this is my husband, but this is, this is my favorite artist in the entire world. And when you think about that, With your partner.

[00:13:41] This is my favorite person in the world. This is my favorite writer in the world. This is my favorite business coach in the world. This is my favorite. You know, whatever you do in life, this is my favorite. And if you go that that day, every single day, and you just really support each other,

[00:13:59] We’ll always be in the honeymoon phase because we’re each other’s number one supporters and each other’s number one cheerleaders.

[00:14:05] And we always communicate with each other every single day.

[00:14:08] Jesse: Yeah. The communication thing, I don’t want to under stress that, Yeah, we spend. Hours and hours just talking to each other every day. Every day. Mm-hmm. and most relationships, you know, somebody goes or both go to work, they come home, they see each other.

Be Honest

[00:14:26] How was work? It was fine. How was your job? Fine. All right. Let’s have dinner. Oh, should we watch tv? Okay, let’s watch TV and then let’s go to sleep. And we don’t talk to people. Mm-hmm. .

[00:14:37] One of the first things I ever said to Melissa. I’m gonna be 100% honest with you about everything all the time, and she said, I will too.

[00:14:46] And we’ve, we’ve. Focused on that. And that helps us with business, that helps us with our personal relationship, that helps us with our friends relationships. Everything we do, we just approach it from a place of honesty. It’s heart driven and we talk, like I said, about everything. Even if it’s ridiculous, we talk about it.

Regular Communication

[00:15:05] And. We, we find that we hardly ever fight because we’re always communicating. Yeah. We, when it comes to business things, we generally get on the same page really quickly because we’re both discussing the, the steps in real time. You know, we’re not waiting until the end of the day and saying, Okay, so now I need to bring this to you.

[00:15:25] I have a song on my album that just came out that says, I spend every hour of every day with you, and I’d still want more.

[00:15:32] Miriam: Sorry guys. You only get 24 hours a day. I know. Yeah. Okay. So I mean, I appreciate, I’m, I’m also a therapist as well as a coach, and so I appreciate many of the things that you’re talking about.

[00:15:46] What happens when you do disagree when you can’t get on the same page, or if you’re committed to honesty, sometimes you’re gonna say something that hurts the other person’s feelings or, You are two individuals who have different opinions about certain things, even if you’re really similar, tell us how you handle some of those

[00:16:05] Melissa: spaces.

[00:16:06] Understanding Disagreements

[00:16:06] Melissa: There’s, there’s been times where we’re, we agree to disagree. It is the best phrase, you know, but we talk, talk about it. Why do you feel, why do you feel that way about this? Well, Of this way or maybe a some past trauma that you’ve gone through. And we just talk about it, like what is the “why” behind it?

[00:16:26] Jesse: Sorry to interrupt, but, or is it our ego that’s making us disagree or something in us that, that is our pride and we, we want to disagree with this because it’s, it’s a personal issue that we need to deal with, so we’re constantly challenging each other to explore those areas as

[00:16:43] Melissa: well.

[00:16:43] When we talk about something and we’re open and honest and we come from a loving place, we both know that we’re coming from a loving place. Anytime that we talk about any, it could be anything absolutely anything. A graphic Jesse design.

[00:16:56] And I’m like, Well, that’s not so great. Let’s, you know, know, Restart over with that. Okay, no worries. Let’s, let’s do it together. You know, there’s, there’s always places as, as long as you come. And, and love, and you come in love with whatever you do. You can, you can overcome your challenges that you have.

[00:17:16] Jesse: It also helps that we both have thick skin as creatives. You can look at me and I could write a song or something or make a graphic or whatever it is I’m working on. You can look at me like, Yeah, I really hate that. And I’ll be like, Oh. Okay.

It’s Your Vision

[00:17:30] What do you hate

[00:17:30] Melissa: about it? Yeah. Or, or what do you hate about it? What can I change? What can I improve on?

[00:17:35] Jesse: Whereas the majority of people would say, you hate my work. You hate what I created . I spent so much time making this and you hate it.

[00:17:44] creative processes, one of those things where like, If you, if you can’t just throw away something that you worked hours and hours and hours on, then you’re in the wrong field because there’s gonna be times like our, our motto for our company is, it’s your vision. We just bring it to life. There’s, there’s times where we miss the vision, and that’s okay because it’s not our vision.

[00:18:05] We’re working for somebody else’s vision and we have an idea. And sometimes that idea is, Sometimes that idea is trash, and if that idea is trash, throw it away as quickly as possible. Yeah. I’ve got a stack of songs like that huge that I will never see the light of day ever, but I wrote them and they helped me to grow and they made me better.

[00:18:26] Mm-hmm. and Melissa has stories and all this stuff that she’s like themes for deadly cramps in her comic book series that she’s created that will never see the light of day, and that’s ok. And people just need to know that it’s okay to, to put your heart and soul into something. And at the end of the day that it wasn’t right.

[00:18:43] Not that it wasn’t good, but it wasn’t right for what was needed. And if you can approach things with that mentality, then that alone solves a lot of issues.

[00:18:52] Small Things

[00:18:52] Miriam: Sure. So I heard you say so many things. I wanna just recap some of ’em and then you correct me if I misheard you. Mm-hmm. , I heard you say Melissa, that you guys deal with stuff while they’re little. And so if you’re, you know, I don’t know. If you’re driving somewhere and you, you’ve got your MAPS program and it’s telling you to turn right and you turn left, if you reroute within a block, it’s just not that big of a deal.

[00:19:17] Mm-hmm. , if you reroute after 25 miles, It’s a much bigger deal. Yeah. Yes. So I’m hearing you say, deal with things while they’re small. And you didn’t say this, but I’m guessing that if you’re speaking at something from a place of love, that you have some forms of respect within your communication style.

[00:19:38] Like you’re not attacking the person, you’re talking about the idea, and the other person has made a choice to not defensive. The truth or the perspective that’s coming out. Those were some of the things that I heard you say.

[00:19:53] And then Jesse, you, this is something that I think very, very many people do not have is this.

[00:20:01] It’s, I, I don’t know why, but it seems like so many people have this feeling of I should be able to do it right or perfect the first time, and if I can’t do it right or perfect the first time, I’m throwing it out and I’m quitting and I’m not have to be terrible at it. Yeah. And I, I just think that we do.

[00:20:21] Keep Trying

[00:20:21] Miriam: Somehow in our brains, and I don’t know if this has been the culture of giving everybody a little prize at the end of the exercise or recital or soccer game or whatever somewhere along the line we have not been taught. You know, if at first you don’t succeed, try try again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:44] Jesse: And we, unfortunately, we see that with our children too.

[00:20:48] So quick example of that, our daughter wanted to play violin. Mm-hmm. I was a strings teacher, so I was starting to teach her some of the basics. And at first she liked it a lot. She was really interested and then she realized that, Oh, you know, I have to spend time practicing this.

[00:21:02] Yeah. And it, it, it is hard and it’s not just gonna be something that I can just pick up once a month. Than do well. And ultimately she decided she didn’t want to play violin anymore cuz it was for whatever reason, she, in my opinion, it was too much work.

[00:21:18] It was too much work. And for, for that mindset, it’s sad because she could have had something in her life that brought her this unbelievable joy, but instead she chose the easier route of just giving it up.

[00:21:33] And as a parent, you don’t wanna. Push kids too hard into doing things, but at the same time you’re like, Come on, just give it a chance.

[00:21:40] And that’s, that’s what we see with a lot of people in business. It’s like so many people have these dreams and they’re like, I’m gonna go for this dream. And the first second, it doesn’t work out exactly the way they thought.

Try Again

[00:21:50] They just quit. It’s like, but the world needs your dream. The world needs that thing that you were going to do, but because you had a little bit of kickback, you’re just gonna throw your hands up and quit. Like that’s really sad because now the world, the entire world is missing out on what you had to offer.

[00:22:07] And we’re just all about telling people, Don’t quit on your dreams. Don’t, don’t stop because it gets hard. Take a breath and try again.

[00:22:16] Miriam: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Who or where did you learn that it’s okay to fail, that you have to try again, that it’s okay to try again or to iterate, or any of those things somewhere along the line?

[00:22:32] That was to both of you.

[00:22:35] Melissa: Hmm. I’ll give a really good example. With Deadly Crimson, I have been working on Deadly Crimson for many years. And this is your comic book, right? This is my comic book, yes. Okay. So Deadly Crimson started out and it’s gone through so many different. Phases, but I never gave up.

[00:22:55] And I, the very first kind of book that I came out is not out for the public and it’s on my computer and that’s where it’s gonna stay . And but if I would’ve said, I’m not gonna do this. I’m not, because you know, it. It’s not good enough. It’s, it’s not good. It’s, it’s then it would never be at the place where it is now.

Try Something Different

[00:23:17] And now it’s a full comic book. So now, Oh, look at that. I have a full comic book. And it’s, that’s beautiful. Completely finished.

[00:23:26] And we’re doing a 23. City, city tour next year, a comic contour, you know, so it’s, it’s growing and it’s getting bigger, but if I would’ve said, This isn’t good enough, I’m not good enough, and I would’ve gotten to that mindset of, I’m not worthy, I’m not good enough, and I would’ve backed down and not done it, then it would never be at the place that it is now and growing exponentially every single day.

[00:23:55] Yeah.

[00:23:56] Jesse: For me, it. Learning this mindset probably had a lot to do with being a musician. You know, I’ve been in professional bands since I was 16 years old, And you’re working with other people, they tell you real quick when you’re doing something that they don’t like and you, you have a choice to make you,

[00:24:13] you can curl into your little ball and feel bad for yourself that you didn’t do it right, or you can try to do something different.

[00:24:22] I guess I grew up in a house where we just didn’t take things as personally. My dad was kind of critical. At times of a lot of the things I did, and he would just tell me exactly the way it was and whether that hurt my feelings or didn’t.

Deal With Your Difficulties

[00:24:38] And I, I just learned to kind of brush it off, take the, the positive out of it that I could take and then get like not dwell on the negative.

[00:24:49] I found myself in certain areas of my life when I wasn’t as mentally strong, I wasn’t. Strong with my, my self-confidence where I let people say negative things to me and I took it really personally.

[00:25:03] And then I would go and evaluate myself later and be like, Why did I take that so hard? What is it about that person and what they said that made me take it as hard as I did?

[00:25:13] And I would have to like deal with those things. And that’s the other problem is most people don’t deal with the things inside of them.

[00:25:20] They. Oh, I’m sad. Let’s brush this under the rug real quick and forget all about it, and then we’ll come back and hope that it never happens again. You can’t do that. You have to deal with your stuff, or else you’ll go into a cycle of just a downward spiral in your life and you’ll, you’ll never get past it.

[00:25:39] Taking Constructive Criticism

[00:25:39] Miriam: Yeah, I hear what you’re saying. For sure. There was a time years ago where I took a creative writing class and I was one of those like teachers, pet kind of kids who got a’s all the time and this was in college, took this class, loved the class, wrote this. Essay. That was huge. Got it. Back First draft c plus.

[00:26:00] And I was like, What, What? And he said, No, this was a, this is really good writing. Keep, keep at it. It’s gonna be an a paper. But, and I, I was like, you gave me a c plus. I mean, I could not get over the stupid grade. Mm-hmm. . And as I worked on it and. Pointed out all sorts of stuff that could be better. It ended up being so much better.

[00:26:27] Yeah. Yeah. And in the end, I was grateful for the feedback he gave me because it took, if he had said, Hey, this is an a, a good job, first draft, you know, here are a couple little things you can tweak. I would’ve been all like, Oh, look at. I’m a writer. Yeah, .

[00:26:43] Jesse: And you would’ve given mediocre

[00:26:45] Melissa: writing and you wouldn’t know what to improve on and what, And those tips go into the next writing or the next story, and the next newsletter and the next, everything that you’re doing.

Make it Yours

[00:26:56] Miriam: Absolutely. It became something I was totally proud of. And I also am a painter, Did this painting not that long ago, Showed it to someone who is close to me and they said, Eh, it’s kind of meh. I don’t know. It needs something here. And I was, and again, I, I was gonna actually put this painting up in my office and have it be for sale.

[00:27:18] I was like, What? Just put it. But I kept thinking about it and thinking about it, and in the end, I made some changes. I like it so much better that I, this other person was like, well, are you gonna sell it? And I was like, No, I like it too much. .

[00:27:36] Melissa: That’s amazing. I love that.

[00:27:38] Jesse: I had a similar experience recently.

[00:27:40] Now I just released my record and the record’s called Power to Change while I was writing the title track for that song. And I had a chorus that I thought was pretty good and I played it for Melissa and she. Yeah, it’s not your best work. And I was. Oh, okay. Okay. So what could be better about it?

The Hard Truth

[00:27:57] She’s like, Well, that course is kind of repetitive. You, it’d be better if you like, came up with some different words for it. And I was like, Oh, cool. So now I changed the words, and again, it’s the title track of the album and I love the song and it’s got this like really cool feel and everything works now, but it would not have worked had I stuck with my original plan and not listened to the voice of reason that I invited into my life.

[00:28:20] And there’s the other thing, you have to. Bring people around you that you can trust. Mm-hmm. , especially if you’re cre a creator, bring people that you can trust that are gonna tell you the hard things and not just be yes men and mm-hmm , just pat you on the head and tell you how good of a job you always do.

[00:28:36] But bring people that will be honest and give you real feedback and that you know that they have your back. And so that way when they do give you a hard thing that you have to swallow. You know that they’re doing it because they actually mean it and they appreciate you and they want to see you do your best.

[00:28:54] Miriam: This is, you know, tremendous information for creatives, but it actually applies to anybody. It applies to a relationship, it applies to parenting, it applies to anything where you are putting out effort. And if you cannot receive feedback and hear, and adjust, then you end up in a silo of yourself, and that’s just never a good space to be.

[00:29:17] How to Find Melissa and Jesse

[00:29:17] Miriam: So Melissa and Jessie, this has been so much fun. I would love to have you guys come back at some point. Definitely. Why don’t we have you tell our audiences how they can find you and of course we’ll put all the information in the show notes.

[00:29:31] Melissa: Of course. So you can find our podcast Reimagine Success at Reimagine Success Pod on any social media platform.

[00:29:40] Jesse: And reimaginesuccesspod.com. Yeah.

[00:29:43] We have a website for our business, Creative Global. If you need any kind of brand elevation or podcast production or any number of things just head over to CreativeGlobalDot.Rocks, and we’ll get you taken care of and see what we can do for you.

[00:29:59] Miriam: Awesome. That’s so great. And as we had mentioned before we started the podcast, my listeners know that we do a donation in your name and you guys chose, chose the Sheldrick Wildlife Trust.

[00:30:10] Yes. They rescue baby elephants from moms who have been poached. So we’ll get that sent to you right away and we’ll put that in your daughter’s name so she’ll get the updates about the baby elephants. Thank you again. Yeah, she’s gonna love.

[00:30:24] Jesse: Thank you. Thanks so much you, this has been great Miriam, and I really appreciate you having us on.

[00:30:28] Yeah, and for those of you that don’t know, Miriam’s actually gonna be on our podcast in the near future, so be looking out for that as well cuz she’s a great host and we wanna just say how much we appreciate her and everything she’s doing on this podcast to make this world a little bit better of a place.

[00:30:43] Aw, thank you.

End Credits

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Music by Tom Sherlock.

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Non-Profit Leadership with Kendra Penry

[00:00:00] Miriam: Great. Today. I am so happy to have Kendra Penry with me, and I’m gonna let you introduce yourself. You have a really cool job description.

[00:00:11] Stokes Nature Center

[00:00:11] Kendra: Sure. So I, as Miriam said, my name’s Kendra Penry and I am the executive director at. Stokes Nature Center in Logan, Utah.

[00:00:21] Stokes Nature Center exists to make nature education an outdoor exploration possible for all people.

[00:00:27] Because we believe that through education we can all become better stewards of the natural world. My job takes on. Any number of facets depending on the day.

[00:00:39] But for instance, today I’m talking about open access to research with professors at Utah State University. But I also do our finances and our IT department and our benefits and our human resources and everything to keep the organization going.

[00:00:57] We know that nature is essential to our physical and our mental health, and we don’t care for that, which we don’t know. So we’re working to make sure everyone can know nature and therefore care for it better.

[00:01:10] Miriam: Oh, well spoken. So anybody who lives in northern Utah in the Logan area has been to the Stokes Nature Center, I would think.

[00:01:18] And I mean, my kids grew up going there. I loved that it was there. I love what you’re doing. What you were describing, you just described a whole bunch of skill sets and anybody, half of my audience are entrepreneurs and solopreneurs and any of those solopreneurs know exactly what you’re talking about.

[00:01:39] Non-Profits

[00:01:39] Miriam: They wear a bunch of hats. They do a ton of different things. Can you describe for me just a little bit of your history of how you got involved working with non-profits? And we’ll start there and then we’ll go from there.

[00:01:53] Kendra: I started with non-profits when I was a teenager. I have always felt that I wanted my job to be more about.

[00:02:01] Service than about profit. And I, that’s not the same for everyone. I completely understand that. But for me, that’s just where I fit. I attempted to work for the government for a while because I do have a masters in international affairs and that was not a good fit. And I’ve worked in international business for a large corporation and I also did not enjoy it.

[00:02:24] And nonprofits is just where I feel at home where I feel like I can. A difference in my community and that I have value in what I’m doing beyond just bringing home a paycheck. I got there by just piecemealing it together. I’ve slowly in my head, been working backwards, essentially in finding what I’m passionate about.

[00:02:48] I’ve done everything from managing volunteers at a nonprofit to creating programming to prevent human trafficking to fighting for food security. But in reality, I as an individual feel most fulfilled when I am creating solutions, not raising awareness. I get the value in that and I very much respect the people that do it.

[00:03:15] But for me, I need to know that what I’m doing is actually solving the issue.

Putting Skills to Work

[00:03:19] And everything right now in our world on, in our planet is coming back to this issue of climate change. It is driving food insecurity, it is driving immigration, It is driving all sorts of issues. And so if we want to address the bigger ones, we’ve gotta start at the beginning.

[00:03:35] And so that’s how I landed. Stokes Nature Center was that I had these skill sets where I had worked every facet of a non-profit from the ground up. And what they needed was an administrator, executive director. Sounds cool. But I don’t do the programming side, which is the fun side. I do the administrative work, and that is what I know and I’ve done it from every angle.

[00:03:59] And so it was a perfect fit to not only take these skills that I have, but to put it to work at an organization. Works to address the issue that is most at the heart of what I feel is important right now. And it was also a perfect timing fit in that I needed a job and it was available, but I have loved it.

[00:04:20] But it is one of those things where it’s, I know this may not be my final landing place either. It’s. And that’s a beautiful thing in the nonprofit world. You can slowly evolve as you find what you’re good at and what you’re passionate about.

[00:04:33] Values

[00:04:33] Miriam: Sure. So, because you did some work with some governmental agencies and some corporate agencies, and now this sort of space, can you compare and contrast some of the differences?

[00:04:44] Kendra: Sure. So your values are very different at each of them. In corporations, the value is profit, it is your shareholders, and that is the design of them. They are supposed to be doing that. They also tend to focus more on the, a managerial style that is top down, whereas non-profits have to be more collaborative and mainly because everybody’s doing multiple jobs.

[00:05:09] So we all kind of have to work together. And some people fit into one of those better than another. There’s no one right answer there. It’s just a different model of doing business.

[00:05:22] Government on the other hand, In similar ways to nonprofit built around service, it is intended to serve people. But of course there are constraints there that nonprofits don’t necessarily have in terms of your, your political climate changes depending on who’s in charge.

[00:05:39] Whereas a nonprofit has a dedicated mission that this is what we’re always doing no matter what’s happening around us. But for me, I feel like the non-profit is where. Kinda, it’s the boots on the ground of making all of that happen because we we’re still a business. Absolutely. We’re called a nonprofit, but I have to run it the same as any other business.

Finances in Non-Profits

[00:06:02] We still have to have staff and we have to prevent turnover, and we have to deal with. Filing 9 41 s. It’s the same as any other business. It’s just in the end, the money that I make is intended to go back into serving my community as opposed to purchasing stock or paying shareholders. So it’s that end goal is what shifts.

[00:06:24] But in reality we are very similar. But we just do the same thing with a lot less money .

[00:06:31] Miriam: Sure, sure. No, that makes sense. I remember the first time. I understood a little bit about how a nonprofit worked, and I was really surprised because they were making a profit. Yeah. And as you said, the profit is intended to go back into the workings of the organization and furthering the mission.

[00:06:49] It is an interesting perspective and it draws a little bit of a different kind of person. The kind of people who like to work for non-profits are a little bit different in their perspective than the kind of people who like to work for “for profit” type of organizations. Neither right or wrong, both just, you know, utilizing people’s unique gift giftings and skill sets.

[00:07:13] What is something that as you kind of watched yourself progressing from this to that, You had to hit some spaces, whether they, they might have been like something negative happened or something positive happened that sort of shuttled you into the next version of yourself. Can you tell a couple stories about those kind of transitions?

[00:07:37] Leadership Transition

[00:07:37] Kendra: Sure. So one of the primary transitions that stands out for me in the end was very positive, but at the time felt very negative.

[00:07:46] I had a situation at a nonprofit where, Did not have good leadership. And it framed who I am as a leader.

[00:07:55] I think a lot of us look at needing a mentor to shape us positively, but we also lose sight of the fact that negative experiences are equally valuable.

[00:08:03] And this one definitely was because I felt like the person leading the organization was making it more about themselves than about the. And a lot of us doing the actual work, were not getting credit for what we did. And we also didn’t understand things. There was not that sense of transparency within the organization that we needed to know.

[00:08:24] Even just, you know, are our finances okay? We don’t know. Like should I be finding more donors? I don’t know. There was too much of siloing and too much of one person.

[00:08:35] And it shaped me wanting to be a leader so that I could be the opposite. So that I could really help empower staff to do what they do well by making sure they don’t have to worry about things, that they know them, but they don’t have to worry about them.

Serve the Staff

[00:08:51] And also to know that I, as a leader, my first job is to serve my staff. Not the community. My staff’s job is to serve the community, but by supporting my staff, they are better able to do their job. And that is a hard lesson for a lot of leaders to learn, especially in the non-profit world, because we get into it because we’re passionate about it and we want to keep doing that.

[00:09:17] And when you transition into the leadership role, it shifts everything, because your goal is not to create a dynamic program. Your goal is to keep your staff happy, so they create a dynamic program. And that’s what I wanted. That’s what I learned was that there were so many people being lost. There was so much turnover in the nonprofit world, more so than in most other industries.

[00:09:40] And I wanted to do what I could to reduce that. So we stopped losing so much talent and so much passion for our work.

[00:09:49] But I only knew that once I saw the opposite and I actually left that job because of the leadership there. And I didn’t want someone else to, to feel that same way.

[00:10:00] And then at the same time, I’ve had a great experience with the very next job I went to.

Leadership for Staff

[00:10:06] I had so much freedom to do my job. They trusted me that I knew what to do, and I, as long as I did it well, they weren’t gonna micromanage me. And it just, it was a whole new world for me. Being an adult, essentially, but also being in charge of what happened within my territory and feeling like I could create things and be proud of them and help transform the community around me and that the leadership behind me.

[00:10:40] Supported me and they liked what I was doing and trusted me. And that I hope also translates to my staff now. And that I have tried to turn that into a piece of my leadership as well. That I trust them, that I let them know that as long as you’re doing your job and you’re doing it very well, that I trust you and you, if you are not hearing from me, then you are doing a great job

[00:11:06] Internal Motivation

[00:11:06] Miriam: It seems like, and you would have to correct me if I’m wrong Nonprofits need people who are internally motivated and kind of self-directed.

[00:11:17] Is that, is that what you would say?

[00:11:20] Kendra: Absolutely. You have to be internally motivated because nonprofits can’t necessarily give you the external motive motivation that other companies have and. It’s unfortunate that that’s what’s happened in the world, that a lot of people take for granted non-profit work and believe that we shouldn’t be paid well because we love what we do, , and, and it is part of my crusade to make sure that people understand that that is not in fact true, that we do deserve to be paid well.

[00:11:51] We have to run our organization the same as any other business. And to attract talent, I need to be able to pay well and to provide benefits. And we love what we do. It’s not an OR. And hopefully we can start shifting that. But for now, until that does shift, it requires internal motivation to be able to keep going when you see someone with your same degree ma making five times as much money because they win a different route.

[00:12:18] And it seems like their life is easier. Whether or not it really is would be. Story, but it seems that way and it can draw you into a different way of working. If you don’t have that internal motivation to be doing it. It does definitely require a passion for your community and for, for what you do.

Keep the Passion

[00:12:39] Because it’s, it’s hard. It’s really easy to get pessimistic in the nonprofit world because our, what is what we’re doing really making a difference. I, it’s hard to know. And it’s even harder to prove a negative if you’re in a nonprofit world that’s working to prevent something. You can’t prove whether you’re doing it or not, if you’re doing it well,

[00:13:01] Yeah. So you can really easily lose the passion for what you’re doing unless you are, you are internally motivated and also, Keeping yourself mentally and, and physically healthy along the way.

[00:13:14] Miriam: Yeah, I can see how there would be some spaces that were pretty unique to what you do that maybe the rest of the world doesn’t deal with.

[00:13:24] I was talking with someone the other day and we were talking about I, I think we were talking about some charities that are listed on Charity Navigator. We always check out charities just to make sure that, you know, the vast majority of the donation is going to serve the thing, not just going into, you know, whatever, fundraising or whatnot.

Other Salaries

[00:13:44] And in this particular one, this. CEO was making six figures and it started an interesting question of, is that okay or not okay? And the person I was talking with said, Well, I don’t think that’s good stewardship. I don’t think that’s okay. And the, And I was saying, Well, you know, if you look at this person’s salary in reference to anyone else at this level in business, they’re taking a pretty low salary.

[00:14:09] But I understand how the public. I understand where the confusion comes from because when people donate their a hundred dollars or their $200 and then they see someone getting a six figure salary, then they’re like, Ah, is this good use of my money or resources? Anyway? It is until you have walked in those shoes and understood.

[00:14:34] I think it’s easy to judge people for sure.

[00:14:37] Non-Profit Finances

[00:14:37] Kendra: Mm-hmm. , it’s a balance. Mm-hmm. and it is a, a very delicate balance. But we, if we want the programs that we’re offering to be high quality, then we have to have high quality staff and we have to be able to attract them away from so much other competition that pays well.

[00:14:55] And yes, we will always pay. Than a large corporation would. Absolutely. And there is some expectation there to that because we depend on donations and we want the money to go into programs too. Absolutely. But we need to pay our bills . Sure. In order to do the programs, we have to be able to have a place to live.

[00:15:17] So as there is this very fine line there. But I think there is a space for conversation to be sure that people providing services are paid fairly, not exorbitantly, but fairly for the work that they’re doing so that they can keep doing it.

[00:15:34] Miriam: Sure, absolutely. So you mentioned earlier in this list, Of nonprofits that you had spent time in.

[00:15:41] One of them was dealing with human trafficking. Do you mind if I ask a couple questions about that? Sure. Like what what was your role in that organization? What did you find rewarding? What caused you to switch to something else?

[00:15:58] Preventing Human Trafficking

[00:15:58] Kendra: Sure. So the organization works to raise awareness about human trafficking, and my job was as a program manager, and I developed programming that focused on preventing human trafficking among juveniles domestically.

[00:16:13] I also did research on trafficking in the area where I lived and I did a lot of our outreach to Faith Communi. And to schools to make sure people felt equipped to recognize the signs.

[00:16:27] I developed a training for the police department where I lived that was launched within their cadet Academy so that all up and coming police officers would be able to recognize it better and the differences between trafficking.

[00:16:41] Smuggling or trafficking and prostitution and various different things. And I loved the job because it is an issue that I feel we absolutely need to address. But the reason I left is because the driving motiva motivation for human trafficking is primarily poverty. If we are not addressing poverty, what I was doing was never gonna solve the problem.

Non-Profits Addressing Poverty

[00:17:07] I can raise awareness every single day for the next million years, and it doesn’t stop trafficking from happening. It still happens until we take a step back and focus on preventing victims and preventing perpetrators from happening in the first place. And that’s why I left is I wanted to get more onto the primary issue motivating the problem.

[00:17:28] And so I transitioned into an organization that works on addressing hunger and poverty because if we can solve those, we reduce the risk factors for people becoming victims of trafficking. So in many ways, I felt like I was just continuing the work. I was just going a step back to hopefully prevent the trauma from ever having to take place.

[00:17:49] Miriam: Sure makes so much sense. And boy, if you go down some of these rabbit holes, it gets pretty deep because poverty at some level can be caused by climate change and some of these other, I mean, you know, and so then you end up switching into that space. It’s all connected. We’re all part of one world and they, everything touches everything for sure.

[00:18:13] Recognizing Human Trafficking

[00:18:13] Miriam: Do you mind sharing a couple thoughts about How to recognize trafficking. I, I just think as long as we’ve got people listening, we might as well share, right? Yeah, sure.

[00:18:25] Kendra: So first of all, I will say that I will never forget, but the hotline to call if you recognize trafficking, is 8 8 8 37 37 8 8 8 , very easy number.

[00:18:34] But there are two primary types of trafficking. Sex trafficking and labor trafficking and sex trafficking tends to get a lot of attention, but labor trafficking is actually four times more common. And it appears in various ways between domestic servitude to Even magazine salespeople. Door to door was an interesting ar area of research that was happening while I was in the field.

[00:18:58] But then of course, sex trafficking. The primary definition is force fraud or coercion used to make someone work against their will. And signs that you look out for One of the trainings lately has been for flight attendants looking out for people not in possession of their own identification documents.

[00:19:17] That can be a very big sign or signal. The age of the person is very important. When we’re looking at sex trafficking, you’re looking at people under the age of 18. It does not matter what put them there. It doesn’t matter if they say they chose it. If they are under 18, then they are a victim of, of trafficking if they are being used for the purposes of sex or exploitation.

Review Your Purchases

[00:19:41] We also see within businesses here in the US there have been more than one case of large hotel or motel chains. Their cleaning crews are victims of human trafficking because they’re not being paid, and it is very common within our food systems. So migrant labor is very easily exploited in ways that.

[00:20:04] Pretty astounding giving that this is the year 2022.

[00:20:07] But what I like to tell people is what you can do is look at how you purchase things if it is an issue that is really important to you. Knowing how, to, knowing the company that you’re purchasing from and their ethical standards and treating their workers all the way down their supply chain, not just in their office.

[00:20:27] But including that they know who is picking your tomatoes and who is making your shirt, That is what you want to see. The Fair Trade Label, for instance, is certified trafficking and slave labor free. So that’s an easy, well, I won’t say easy, a simple way. To be able to fight trafficking is changing how you purchase, and that’s actually the number one impact that we as Americans can really have is changing how we purchase.

Keep Your Eyes Open

[00:20:54] Because that changes how companies do business. But you can just keep your eyes out when you’re traveling when you are in your own community, when you staying in a hotel, having conversations is one of the biggest things that you can do. Get to know the people that are cleaning your room or are serving you food or just knowing that it can be there, but also not seeing it everywhere.

[00:21:21] But if you do see the signs, then calling the number and reporting it it takes you to Polaris Project, which is a great nonprofit out of DC that runs the National Hotline for trafficking and they can report it to the local authorities to investigate it.

[00:21:35] Miriam: Thank you. I appreciate you talking about that.

[00:21:38] I think that these things go in waves as far as people’s awareness. and a lot of times people are saying, What can I do? This is such a big problem, whether it’s the trafficking thing or climate change, or whatever. The people are always saying, What can I do? So I appreciate that you gave some specific things.

[00:22:00] Effective Management

[00:22:00] Miriam: A couple other quick questions and then we’ll wrap it up. When, when you look at your development within the nonprofit sphere, what are some things you had to grow in, in terms of perspective?

[00:22:17] Kendra: So, well, one that I’ve already talked about is managing people, growing my perspective on what that means, like mm-hmm.

[00:22:24] how you manage people effectively. And in different ways cuz every person is very unique. And that required experiencing it. To be able to become the leader that I wanted to be, but also being li willing to listen when someone tells me something’s not working and not taking it personally. Being willing to change as necessary and really get to know the people I’m leading.

[00:22:54] But the other area I really had to grow in is the absolute basics, the things that I feel like we don’t learn enough of really in school such. QuickBooks, like, how do I manage my accounting books? How do I, you know, set up my webpage? Things that are very simple that I don’t have the money to call someone to come do for me.

[00:23:19] Mm-hmm. , sometimes that’s trial and error. , That is true, but it’s also a matter of my personal motivation to seek out the training and the education that I need to be better at it. Recognizing those things and not pretending like I know them, but being willing to admit that I don’t, and then take the steps to learn them.

Master Naturalist

[00:23:37] For instance, this year I’ve worked diligently to become what’s known as a master naturalist. Because while I don’t develop our programs, just my title in and of itself invites people to ask me questions, and I do not have a background in nature or the environment. And too many times my answer had to be, I don’t know, but I’ll figure it out.

[00:23:58] And so that was a piece that I felt was missing, and so I took it upon myself to find the classes that I need to be able to better serve my community. And that it’s a continuous process. Absolutely. I know there’s more that I need to learn and it will both be on the job, but also be a matter of recognizing where I feel inadequate and taking the steps to, to be better at it, and also ask for help as needed.

[00:24:27] Right. Something a lot of leaders don’t like to do, but being willing to do it and it doesn’t show weakness. It actually, in my opinion, is very much a strength to just say, I don’t know how to do this, but someone can teach me.

[00:24:40] Miriam: Yes. I would say right there, that is the basis of the high performing mindset.

[00:24:46] I don’t know, but I can figure it out. I don’t know, but I’m gonna ask someone. So good on you for like internalizing that space and saying, I don’t have to know everything I confident in my ability to learn. That’s what I heard you. Well done.

[00:25:03] Be More Respectful

[00:25:03] Miriam: Yes. What would you say, like if you could change anything about the public so far that from what you know, what , I wish I was the magic genie that could give you the wand, but what would you change?

[00:25:16] Yeah, what would you ask from people? Please do more of this or less of this.

[00:25:23] Kendra: I think I would ask people to please, please be more respectful in general. be, more respectful of, of each other, but also of the environment around us. And not because it’s pretty or we want it, but because it’s absolutely essential to us as human beings.

[00:25:44] Yeah. We need the planet, We need our environment. We are. As reliant on it as any other species on this planet, and respect is where it all comes from, and that also goes for each other and recognizing that. You know when I go off trail because I want a pretty picture, is that really beneficial to anyone or is it potentially causing harm so that the person coming after me doesn’t have the experience that I just had?

[00:26:15] Things like that, that are so simple, but I think we lose track of it because we’ve gotten into a mindset. of Just so much self focus and that is both, It’s a pendulum that has happened that we needed to be taking better care of ourselves. But now we’ve gone a bit too far and seen too much of focus on myself and not enough on other people.

Success for All

[00:26:38] So I think just asking for a bit more respect around us would, and, you know, for non-profits a bit more. Respect for each other that we are all working in this space. It’s not a zero sum game. I can succeed and so can someone else. And the same goes for the business world in respecting the choices that we make and other people around us to make sure that.

[00:27:03] You know, our, our supply chains are clean of, of slave labor. That’s a matter of respect too, of respecting all human beings wherever they find themselves in the world. Yeah, that’s what I would love to see more of. .

[00:27:16] What I would pro probably love to see less, less of is the pessimism that we’re seeing lately.

[00:27:23] A lot of us have gotten to this point. It feels like what I do is so small, so why bother doing it? And that is a really dangerous place to be. And yes, maybe my not watering my yard isn’t gonna save the great Salt Lake, but it doesn’t mean I stop doing it. It does mean that I do it and I do more. I advocate for the larger companies to start making the changes they need to make because that’s where real change happens.

[00:27:52] But it also doesn’t mean that I stop doing what I can.

[00:27:56] We Each Have an Influence

[00:27:56] Miriam: That feels like a mic drop moment. I don’t know that I can add too much more to that other than. Everybody has their pet thing that they feel good about. Like I know certain people are super good at picking up trash every time that they walk, but they have no problem flipping someone off who cuts ’em off at the, at the road, you know?

[00:28:18] Yes. And then you have other persons who would just bend over backwards to just help someone out, and they have no problem. Buying a hundred thousand bottles of bottled water. Like yes, we are these interesting mixes of I’m gonna make a positive difference in my world and I’m woefully unaware of the damage I’m causing in other areas.

[00:28:43] And so I love your focus on could we be a little less negative and also do what you can. And then take it one step further. So yes, go ahead and pick up the trash, and also please write this company and say, Thank you for putting your yogurt and glass jars because they can be recycled. And yes, stop watering your lawn in the middle of the day, in the middle of the summer, and also contact so and so and ask them to, you know, use fair trade with their clothing.

[00:29:15] Like there is more that we as individuals can do, but it takes a little bit of effort. It’s not Herculean, but it does take a little bit of effort

Vote

[00:29:25] There was a a time, I don’t know, it was probably in the spring where I was trying to write a company, at least one company each week, either thanking them for something they were doing or asking them to do something different.

[00:29:38] I have no idea if it makes any difference or not. But you get enough people doing that. Yeah, and it does. And somehow or other, we have to hold onto that space in US that says, Our individual effort does matter whether we can see it or not. Yes. That’s hard. I think that’s hard for people at times.

[00:29:59] It’s very hard, but I will also throw out there that one of the biggest things we can do is to vote.

[00:30:04] So it’s the right season right now, but it’s pretty much every year there’s an opportunity to vote on something and we have to keep letting our voice be heard, whether it is writing a letter. Voting for an elected official that believes the way you believe or calling up, you know, a company or, or a nonprofit and finding out how you can get involved.

[00:30:27] There is always something, and I know we all have different levels of time and, and energy to be able to do things but we can all find something that that makes a difference.

[00:30:37] Absolutely. What a great place to end. Kendra, thank you so much for your time today. And you know, I always end my podcast by saying, Now go be intentional.

[00:30:48] And I’m gonna just say it twice. You know, they’ll, it’ll come in the outro, but right now I’m gonna say to our audience, do something to make your world a better place today, intentionally.

End Credits

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Music by Tom Sherlock.

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